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Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

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Intentions or Actions

Poll ended at Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:49 am

Intentions
4
8%
Actions
15
31%
CBH
29
60%
 
Total votes : 48

Re: Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

Postby Skye1013 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:18 am

bldavis wrote:
Passionario wrote: better yet, "don't create nuclear weapons in the first place"?

if only it were possible to go back and stop WWII from happening....
but then again to do that you would have to go back and stop hitler from coming to power
in turn stop the great depression and WWI .....

can we have a redo of the 20th century pls?

Didn't a lot of those "bad" discoveries coincide with a bunch of "good" ones as well? If the a-bomb hadn't happened, would we also have some of our other technological advances that have saved as many, if not more, people than the nukes have killed?

*Disclaimer: I am unable to find anything specifically that came from the a-bomb discoveries, other than "technological advances," but I'm fairly certain we wouldn't be where we are today, scientifically or technologically, without it. Not to mention, Germany was already working on one, so it would require rewriting history far more than just the Manhattan Project, as bldavis mentioned.
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Re: Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

Postby bldavis » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:06 am

it is true we would be farther behind in nuclear medicine
and really the cold war nuke fest came from both the us/uk and the ussr grabbing any and all german nuclear scientist they could
we got some, they got some, and without a common enemy.... let me just say the enemy of my enemy is my friend

i honestly think Germany would have won WWII if Hitler had honored his non-aggression pact with Stalin at least until Britain was overran
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Re: Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

Postby Passionario » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:22 am

My point was that McDuffie's scenario is a trap - it's fundamentally the same as "The villain of Saw series locked you in a room and told you to disembowel seven pregnant women with a butcher knife in order to retrieve keys that have been implanted in their bodies. If you do not get all seven keys within five minutes, a machine will release mustard gas into a room full of children. What would you do?"

In both situations, the true villain is the one who engineered the situation, and you are merely one of the victims trying to cope with it and minimize the damage.
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Re: Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

Postby Invisusira » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:53 am

"What if" is a pretty pointless game to play. Almost as pointless as "Before the gates of Heaven."
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Re: Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

Postby Skye1013 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:08 am

bldavis wrote:it is true we would be farther behind in nuclear medicine
and really the cold war nuke fest came from both the us/uk and the ussr grabbing any and all german nuclear scientist they could
we got some, they got some, and without a common enemy.... let me just say the enemy of my enemy is my friend

i honestly think Germany would have won WWII if Hitler had honored his non-aggression pact with Stalin at least until Britain was overran

There are a number of "what ifs" that could be played out to have led to a better outcome for Hitler. Like... What if Japan hadn't bombed Pearl Harbor? What if Hitler had finished conquering Europe before going after the USSR? What if he had managed to complete the nuke before the Allies? What if the US had decided not to "drop the bomb" on Japan? What if he had quit while he was ahead, to potentially finish up later, after things had calmed down a bit?

Any of those could have led to Hitler "winning." Now, what constitutes a win in each scenario may vary, but there would likely be far more German speakers, and far fewer Jews.
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Re: Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

Postby Fivelives » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:09 am

Syphlis won that war for the allies - if it hadn't driven Hitler crazy by the end, we would have lost - A-bomb or no bomb. But yeah, without the advances in nuclear science that lead up to the bomb, we wouldn't have a lot of what we do now. Atomic clocks, for instance.
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Re: Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

Postby Mcduffie » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:17 am

Passionario wrote:My point was that McDuffie's scenario is a trap - it's fundamentally the same as "The villain of Saw series locked you in a room and told you to disembowel seven pregnant women with a butcher knife in order to retrieve keys that have been implanted in their bodies. If you do not get all seven keys within five minutes, a machine will release mustard gas into a room full of children. What would you do?"

In both situations, the true villain is the one who engineered the situation, and you are merely one of the victims trying to cope with it and minimize the damage.


It's actually not a trap. The SOP exists. If nuclear weapon is stolen, military will return it AT ALL COSTS. You compared a movie with a situation that someone could actually be in. Which is starkly contrasted to "before the gates of heaven." Which is a HUGE what if.

Invisusira wrote:"What if" is a pretty pointless game to play. Almost as pointless as "Before the gates of Heaven."


What if there is an afterlife? What if there is a God? What if there are several Gods, and they all have cool powers? Yeah, I definitely feel very much the same on the subject. Just trying to spread the gospel of "wake the fuck up, and realize this is the one shot you got. Make it count."
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Re: Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

Postby Masumi » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:51 am

Invisusira wrote:"What if" is a pretty pointless game to play. Almost as pointless as "Before the gates of Heaven."


^.^ it seems if the string is moved enough times, the cat will always jump in to play
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Re: Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

Postby thegreatheed » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:01 pm

If only good things happened to good people, there really wouldn't be any good people, just well trained people.

And you missed an option in the poll.

Both.

I believe you'll be judged both by the things you did, and why you did them.
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Re: Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:12 am

thegreatheed wrote:If only good things happened to good people, there really wouldn't be any good people, just well trained people.

And you missed an option in the poll.

Both.

I believe you'll be judged both by the things you did, and why you did them.

This is an either/or poll, there is no room for gray areas!!

/sarcasm :D
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Re: Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

Postby Skwigelf » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:18 am

I agree with the both option.

Also Hitler got in because Jesus died for all of our sins, thus giving us a clean slate upon reaching the pearly gates.

That's right. Hitler is in heaven right now because a Jew sacrificed himself for his sins.
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Re: Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:27 am

Skwigelf wrote:I agree with the both option.

Also Hitler got in because Jesus died for all of our sins, thus giving us a clean slate upon reaching the pearly gates.

That's right. Hitler is in heaven right now because a Jew sacrificed himself for his sins.

Only if Hitler repented for his sins. I can only speak for what I was taught growing up (Church of Christ, no not LDS) but you have to repent and be baptized for that to apply to you. After baptism, you're still supposed to ask for forgiveness, and THAT will allow you into Heaven.
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Re: Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

Postby Fivelives » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:16 am

Baptism only forgives original sin - according to the catholic church, we're all born sinners because we were cast out of the garden of eden. That one's the only "freebie" as far as absolution is concerned. Absolution is supposedly automatic, assuming that there's penitence on the sinner's part and they're honest in their desire to never repeat the sin again.
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Re: Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

Postby bldavis » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:24 am

i grew up LDS, and baptism was for all the sins you had commited before you found the truth
you were wiped clean and from then on, you had to repent in order to lose those new sins

also i snickered at the hitler in heaven b/c a jew gave his life for him
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Re: Before the gates of Heaven (poll fixed)

Postby Fivelives » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:11 am

Whenever you get converted to a new faith, their baptismal ceremony always forgives the sins you committed before joining that faith. It's an exception to the "baptism forgives original sin" rule.
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