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$10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Jabari » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:30 pm

Lightbeard wrote:Pretty sure (although i haven't flown for months) metal detectors are still widely used in nearly every airport.

Dogs will work but then again there are downsides to dogs as well such as upkeep.


How much did we taxpayers spend on the scanners? (Hint: Not a small number - much, much larger than K9 upkeep)

(Side rant: Look up who that money went to. Engage "Boiling Blood", government corruption edition...)
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Fivelives » Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:05 pm

One police officer with a dog is cheaper than two TSA agents, and WAY more effective. There is nothing that will beat a trained dog's detection - dogs are even better than the "sniffer machines" that they use when they're running the swabs they take of your hands and clothing.

The dog’s limit of detection (absolute threshold) has been determined for four compounds to
date. These sensitivities are in the tens of parts per billion (ppb) for methyl benzoate,
cyclohexanone, and nitroglycerin. The sensitivity to DMNB, a detection taggant, is much
greater at 500 parts per trillion (ppt). There is no reason to believe that these thresholds are not
representative of thresholds for other compounds.


http://www.barksar.org/K-9_Detection_Capabilities.pdf
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:24 pm

Fivelives wrote:One police officer with a dog is cheaper than two TSA agents, and WAY more effective. There is nothing that will beat a trained dog's detection - dogs are even better than the "sniffer machines" that they use when they're running the swabs they take of your hands and clothing.

The dog’s limit of detection (absolute threshold) has been determined for four compounds to
date. These sensitivities are in the tens of parts per billion (ppb) for methyl benzoate,
cyclohexanone, and nitroglycerin. The sensitivity to DMNB, a detection taggant, is much
greater at 500 parts per trillion (ppt). There is no reason to believe that these thresholds are not
representative of thresholds for other compounds.


http://www.barksar.org/K-9_Detection_Capabilities.pdf
If dogs can detect such minute quantities, is there an issue with false positives? I know some of these chemicals are used in small quantities in rather innocuous items. Using a dog to search an area where there's reasonable suspicion would make sense, but using them on the general populace could be counter productive if that is the case.
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Fivelives » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:42 am

There's also an issue with having a dog alert to "something". Since dogs are incapable of communicating what it is they're alerting to, there would still have to be swab tests as well. That would rule out almost all of the false positives, I'd think.
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Aurelie » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:35 pm

Wouldn't it be nice if instead of buying scanners and paying TSA agents to grope people, money and focus was put towards the FAA and enforcing deadlines for inspecting planes?
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Arnock » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:51 pm

Flying accross the country tommorow, here's hoping I don't get groped.
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