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$10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Lightbeard » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:03 pm

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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Shamora » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:07 pm

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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Jabari » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:41 am

"A humiliating TSA pat down that left Indian Ambassador to the United States livid and insistent that she would never return to America..." :oops:

(Yes, I am aware of the "reputation" of the source here - doesn't mean the event didn't happen...)

http://www.prisonplanet.com/clinton-tsa-policies-to-be-reviewed-after-humiliating-pat-down-of-indian-diplomat.html
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Fivelives » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:14 am

Why was a diplomat flying commercial? If you fly private, you don't have to go through security at all - you drive straight to your plane's hanger and embark there. I've never heard of a diplomat flying commercial like, ever.
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Brekkie » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:51 am

Dude, diplomats fly commercial all the time. Secretary of State Clinton flew commercial just a couple weeks ago.
IF the above event actually happened, the Ambassador was an idiot for not flashing her diplomatic passport.

I fly internationally all the time, in and out of the US, and I've personally never been patted down OR even SEEN a body scanner, in any of my flights, let alone had to go through one. Its always been the same simple metal detector and carry-on x-ray I've been through countless times since I was a little kid.

The thing is, 99% of these problems wouldn't happen if people weren't idiots when they go to the airport.
Passengers showing up dressed completely impractically for flying wearing 16 different layers of padding, and thousand dollar Italian suits with metal suspenders, tie clasps, shirt stays, and all the other silliness is just being retarded. This is not the 40s. Formal wear is not appropriate attire for flying, particularly if you are too cheap to buy a first class ticket, and people should know that.
I wear suits and military uniforms when I arrive at my destinations too, but I know how to play the game and carry my shit in a small garment bag and have zero problems. I'm not saying wear sweatpants, I'm saying use common sense. If passengers used a little bit of common sense they wouldn't create these situations for themselves where the TSA guy has to figure out what the frolick you have underneath your 100% wool greatcoat, furry hat, and seven layers of clothing with all kinds of metal bits and hidden pockets.

At the end of the day, the air line companies are a business.
While you have the constitutional right to protection for unreasonable searches, you do NOT have the constitutional right to demand that a private business provide you with services if you are unwilling to meet their requested conditions.
Like any business, an airline can refuse service to anyone they wish, with or without your consent. They set the policy of what they require from their consumers, and you either are willing to accept their conditions, or you aren't.

At this point in history, the airlines have a greater economic interest in maintaining their customer base which is only worried about getting from point A to point B safely. They took a huge hit post-9/11 when most people were too scared to fly, and many of the airlines still have not recovered from that hit 9 years later.

If you have a problem with the conditioned those private businesses set forth as the conditions of them providing you with a luxury service that you are not entitled to automatically, then do not fly. Take the train, or a boat, or whatever.
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Aurelie » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:23 am

Brekkie wrote:At the end of the day, the air line companies are a business.
While you have the constitutional right to protection for unreasonable searches, you do NOT have the constitutional right to demand that a private business provide you with services if you are unwilling to meet their requested conditions.
Like any business, an airline can refuse service to anyone they wish, with or without your consent. They set the policy of what they require from their consumers, and you either are willing to accept their conditions, or you aren't.


I would like to point out that the Transportation Security Administration is a government agency. The airlines are not sending stewardesses out to security lines to do pat downs. In fact, pilots for airlines had to get the TSA to agree to allow them to skip the ridiculously invasive searches. So yes, the Fourth Amendment absolutely applies here.
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Njall » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:25 am

And then there is the whole concept of diplomatic courtesy (let alone immunity). What on earth were they thinking?
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Brekkie » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:16 pm

She should have shown her dip passport. Those things are veritable golden tickets. She most likely didn't and all the TSA guy saw was some random middle-eastern-looking lady.
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Darielle » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:19 pm

I'm not sure what the point of speculating (since you definitely don't know, and neither do I) which passport she showed is in this context.
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Brekkie » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:31 am

The point is she didn't show anything.
If she'd had the sense to show her Dip passport she should/would have been sped through with no hassle.
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Fivelives » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:47 am

I stand corrected then.
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Amirya » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:30 pm

Brekkie wrote:The point is she didn't show anything.
If she'd had the sense to show her Dip passport she should/would have been sped through with no hassle.

The sources I've read indicated that she had shown her diplomatic passport, they chose to search her anyway because her clothes were "too bulky" or something.
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Fivelives » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:35 am

Unfortunately, I bet the only fallout from this will be Clinton granting diplomats immunity from the TSA checkpoints, and absolutely nothing will change for the common person - it might even get worse, thanks to the whole "well if they can do it, why can't we?" thing.

We should just do away with the TSA entirely, and have airport security provided by police K-9 units.
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Jabari » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:33 am

Fivelives wrote:Unfortunately, I bet the only fallout from this will be Clinton granting diplomats immunity from the TSA checkpoints, and absolutely nothing will change for the common person - it might even get worse, thanks to the whole "well if they can do it, why can't we?" thing.

Maybe have someone go through the porno-scanner with a Geiger counter hidden away to freak everyone out (but especially the workers)? What could they do to you, really? *chuckle*

Maybe charge an individual agent with sexual assault in court? This would need a little setup (call an officer over to watch the patdown, etc), but going after a "small" thing instead of the whole organization might be a better way to go?

I've emailed all the airlines and told them I wasn't flying, not your fault but won't put up with TSA, etc etc. Got a couple replies, too, which I wasn't expecting.

Fivelives wrote:We should just do away with the TSA entirely, and have airport security provided by police K-9 units.

Amen. Metal detectors and dogs are way more effective than anything they're doing now as it is, anyway.
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Re: $10,000+ fine for deciding not to fly after all?

Postby Lightbeard » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:00 pm

Pretty sure (although i haven't flown for months) metal detectors are still widely used in nearly every airport.

Dogs will work but then again there are downsides to dogs as well such as upkeep.
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