Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

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Re: Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

Postby Shoju » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:46 am

I know at least my father, and the pastor of his current church (my dad retired from being a pastor when i was still young and he realized that some of the things going on were not cool) took something away from what I had to say. I can't speak for the rest, but I can hope.

My upbringing was radical. When I was a kid, I wasn't allowed to say "that sucks" but I could definitely use derogatory terms aimed for homosexuals. Looking back at the way ideologies were in my home and church setting, I'm surprised I'm as opened minded as I am today. There are still things that I struggle with, but above all I try to be understanding of all people.
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Re: Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:47 am

Flex wrote:why do Conservative politicians hate property rights?!

By conservative I assume you mean Republican, which is of course, only accurate on paper and not in practice.
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Re: Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

Postby Flex » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:52 am

Fridmarr wrote:
Flex wrote:why do Conservative politicians hate property rights?!

By conservative I assume you mean Republican, which is of course, only accurate on paper and not in practice.


My favoritest quote is by Eric Cantor
"Anyone looking at that with any common sense would say, 'What in the world would we be doing, you know, fostering some type of system that allows this to happen?' Everybody knows America's built on the rights of free expression, the rights to practice your faith, but come on."


"but come on" is a sound basis to violate the beliefs this nation was founded on!
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Re: Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

Postby Thalia » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:03 pm

I'm not sure if this is accurate, but I've been hearing that a lot of people are more bugged about the fact that they are going to build this Mosque and the city of New York never let the Greek Orthodox church that was destroyed in ground zero be rebuilt.

Can someone explain to me why they wouldn't give the Greek Orthodox church the permits to rebuild nearby...and why they let the Mosque center be built?

Also..I'm pretty worried about crazies who are deeply offended by this going to extremes and targeting the Mosque..also I read there is a guy trying to open a Gay bar right next to the Mosque...which IMO probably a lot of ground laid for confrontations.

Meh...
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Re: Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

Postby Flex » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:08 pm

Thalia wrote:Can someone explain to me why they wouldn't give the Greek Orthodox church the permits to rebuild nearby...and why they let the Mosque center be built?


Money and location.

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Re: Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

Postby Shoju » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:14 pm

Thalia wrote:
Also..I'm pretty worried about crazies who are deeply offended by this going to extremes and targeting the Mosque..also I read there is a guy trying to open a Gay bar right next to the Mosque...which IMO probably a lot of ground laid for confrontations.

Meh...



Why? Islam condemns homosexuality, but it doesn't teach its followers to step outside and pound the daylights out of someone who is. At most, you will end up with a group of muslims who will stand vigilant with signs and offer some sort of literature (if that is indeed the muslim way). What will probably happen is you wont see anything.
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Re: Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

Postby faithlessnub » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:16 pm

Flex wrote:
Thalia wrote:Can someone explain to me why they wouldn't give the Greek Orthodox church the permits to rebuild nearby...and why they let the Mosque center be built?


Money.

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turn ground zero into a park imo, something that is useful for everyone, unless you hate parks.
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mew wrote:I have a friend that made an interesting statement about how Muslims seemm to be the only religious group that America (generalized as a whole) can't seem to distinguish the extremists from the rest of the followers.

I don't think that is accurate at all.


Do you not believe that people have a hard time differentiating extremists from average Muslims (in which case I would strongly disagree with you) or do just not think that they are the only religion where this is the case?


not the article i was looking for but gets the general feel of "the masses" opinion on the topic, complete with over-the-top backlash comments, pleading pro-Islam comments, as well as the middle of the pack informed and uninformed comments.
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Re: Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

Postby katraya » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:17 pm

Shoju wrote:
Thalia wrote:
Also..I'm pretty worried about crazies who are deeply offended by this going to extremes and targeting the Mosque..also I read there is a guy trying to open a Gay bar right next to the Mosque...which IMO probably a lot of ground laid for confrontations.

Meh...



Why? Islam condemns homosexuality, but it doesn't teach its followers to step outside and pound the daylights out of someone who is. At most, you will end up with a group of muslims who will stand vigilant with signs and offer some sort of literature (if that is indeed the muslim way). What will probably happen is you wont see anything.


Considering the guy is a Fox News pundit I wouldn't take the plan very seriously.
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Re: Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

Postby Shoju » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:24 pm

The transcript of that conversation is absolutely horrid. I'm not one for promoting violence, but those two need punched in the face.
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Re: Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

Postby Passionario » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:24 pm

There is a McDonalds in Hiroshima, y'know.
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Re: Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

Postby Chicken » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:27 pm

Shoju wrote:
Thalia wrote:Also..I'm pretty worried about crazies who are deeply offended by this going to extremes and targeting the Mosque..also I read there is a guy trying to open a Gay bar right next to the Mosque...which IMO probably a lot of ground laid for confrontations.

Meh...
Why? Islam condemns homosexuality, but it doesn't teach its followers to step outside and pound the daylights out of someone who is. At most, you will end up with a group of muslims who will stand vigilant with signs and offer some sort of literature (if that is indeed the muslim way). What will probably happen is you wont see anything.
I'd actually say that opening a gay bar next to a church or synagogue is equally likely to lead to confrontations as is a gay bar next to a mosque. Possibly true for other places of religious worship as well, but I'm not as familiar with other religions to know which of them condemn homosexuality.

Edit: Though checking the article someone linked this gay bar thing is a definite case of provocation for the sake of provocation. Can't respect that regardless of who it comes from.
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Re: Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

Postby warden » Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:30 pm

Passionario wrote:There is a McDonalds in Hiroshima, y'know.


I assume you mean the city though, and not at ground zero itself. Many people see this project analagous (is this a word?) to building a B-17 Museum in Dresden. After all, there are other mosques in NYC.
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Re: Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:57 pm

Warden wrote:
Passionario wrote:There is a McDonalds in Hiroshima, y'know.


I assume you mean the city though, and not at ground zero itself. Many people see this project analagous (is this a word?) to building a B-17 Museum in Dresden. After all, there are other mosques in NYC.

That seems like a bit of a stretch of an analogy though. I mean we were at war with Japan/Germany and by default an enemy. We are not at war with Islam or its followers in general. Besides that, I don't really care much about how another country would handle this situation (Do we even know that Germany wouldn't allow a US military museum to be built?), I'm concerned that we follow the clear rule of law as set out in the first amendment.

I can understand people not being "for" it due to all kinds of concerns, so long as they recognize those concerns don't constitute legal grounds to block it. Based on the polling data I read earlier, that seems to be pretty well understood.
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Re: Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

Postby Lightbeard » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:14 pm

I personally don't care if the mosque is built but if they do there is a high risk of it being vandalized.

Edit: Could be worse they could be trying to build another f'ing Starbucks.
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Re: Controversial topic inc: Muslim cultural center+mosque in NY

Postby Thalia » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:43 pm

Shoju wrote:
Thalia wrote:
Also..I'm pretty worried about crazies who are deeply offended by this going to extremes and targeting the Mosque..also I read there is a guy trying to open a Gay bar right next to the Mosque...which IMO probably a lot of ground laid for confrontations.

Meh...



Why? Islam condemns homosexuality, but it doesn't teach its followers to step outside and pound the daylights out of someone who is. At most, you will end up with a group of Muslims who will stand vigilant with signs and offer some sort of literature (if that is indeed the Muslim way). What will probably happen is you wont see anything.


I meant the crazies who are opposed to the mosque being there..the ones who might harm the mosque not the other way around.

+ IMO even if it's said to be being built on a conciliatory note, Muslim conquerings are always known to build Mosque atop their destruction (im into history). A lot of the 911 survivors or those who had families who died at ground zero see it as a taunt, a mosque being built a top the destruction left, kinda like they have done for other places that have fallen to them. Not saying this is their intent, but they are definitely def tone if they don't foresee people who are sensitive to this perceiving it in this way.

Now on the other hand there are crazies like the gay bar that is trying to open next to it. I'm sure the guy trying to open it clearly knows it will offend some of the Muslim parishioners, and that some of the clientele at the bar, especially if drunk, might taunt the Muslims at the mosque.

Islam, in general, is not tolerant of homosexuality. This is my experience from multiple classes I've taken on the religion, from news reports, from Muslim friends I have. In fact, there was a documentary on Muslims who run away to France because they are about to be murdered because it's a high Muslim crime to be engaging in homosexual affairs.

So yes, I think this guy opening the gay bar next to them is one of the crazies who knows it will probably cause problems from either side of the fence, the patrons of the bar who don't like the views of the Muslim religion regarding their lifestyle or maybe some of the Muslims going to their mosque to worship.

They have every right to build a gay bar there and the Muslims have every right to build their mosque there, but IMO it's not a smart decision on either one of their parts.
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