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Dragon Age 2

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Re: Dragon Age 2

Postby Vanifae » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:35 am

Sabindeus wrote:
huh?

I was replying to Laterna when I quoted you. I was using the logic I have seen on the BioWare forums.

It was poorly placed sarcasm.
Last edited by Vanifae on Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragon Age 2

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:40 am

ah

so essentially you meant, if SWTOR has any elements similar to DA2 in it, it will be bad, because DA2 was bad?
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Re: Dragon Age 2

Postby Vanifae » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:42 am

Sabindeus wrote:ah

so essentially you meant, if SWTOR has any elements similar to DA2 in it, it will be bad, because DA2 was bad?

That is the intent of most posts like that, I do not agree with it.

I think DA2 was a decent game it has faults but it's not terrible.
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Re: Dragon Age 2

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:50 am

I loved DA2. Despite all the reused maps. I groaned horribly every time I tried to go through a door that looked like it should be there on the minimap, but wasn't there on this version of the cave/dock/hideout map... But I still really enjoyed the game.

dunno if anyone linked this yet
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Re: Dragon Age 2

Postby Vanifae » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:52 am

Haha yeah the reused maps was probably the most annoying factor for me.
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Re: Dragon Age 2

Postby laterna » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:43 pm

Hmm in hindsight, my post isn't exacly clear.

I've heard comments from people in the beta. Comments of the "the most phenomenally disastrous mmo ever". And this isn't just 1 random bloke. Its people who I've played WoW, and LotRO and Rift together.

DA2 in relation to DA1 is a failure in my eyes. Where DA1 gripped you, and kept you there, focused, not willing to flinch from the screen, I got bored of DA2. The only thing that kept me going for DA2 was the relationships. The story however, not so much. Where you were saving ferelden in DA1, you're just making more cash for yourself in DA2. The only real choice is the mage/templar dilemma, which becomes dry after 2 playthroughs.

It feels as if DA2 lost the magic that DA1 had. And from what I'm hearing about SWTOR, there is no magic at all.

I am hoping I am wrong. That a year from now, I'll look on this post and say "boy was I stupid". After having seen some of the stuff online, and heard from people in the beta, its just WoW in a future look to it. The "new" elements it brings are few.

When a company has the "talent,magic, whatever" into it, it just has it. No blizzard game was a failure. Diablo2, SC1, SC1:BW, SC2, WoW,WoWExpansions. All of them were huge sucesses. Is DA2 the same success DA1 was? Money wise, maybe, but they'll be hard pressed to justify a preorder on DA3 from me.

SWTOR is developed from the same company. If they made some mistakes once, they might redo them no?
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Re: Dragon Age 2

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:01 pm

laterna wrote:Hmm in hindsight, my post isn't exacly clear.

I've heard comments from people in the beta. Comments of the "the most phenomenally disastrous mmo ever". And this isn't just 1 random bloke. Its people who I've played WoW, and LotRO and Rift together.

DA2 in relation to DA1 is a failure in my eyes. Where DA1 gripped you, and kept you there, focused, not willing to flinch from the screen, I got bored of DA2. The only thing that kept me going for DA2 was the relationships. The story however, not so much. Where you were saving ferelden in DA1, you're just making more cash for yourself in DA2. The only real choice is the mage/templar dilemma, which becomes dry after 2 playthroughs.

It feels as if DA2 lost the magic that DA1 had. And from what I'm hearing about SWTOR, there is no magic at all.

I am hoping I am wrong. That a year from now, I'll look on this post and say "boy was I stupid". After having seen some of the stuff online, and heard from people in the beta, its just WoW in a future look to it. The "new" elements it brings are few.

When a company has the "talent,magic, whatever" into it, it just has it. No blizzard game was a failure. Diablo2, SC1, SC1:BW, SC2, WoW,WoWExpansions. All of them were huge sucesses. Is DA2 the same success DA1 was? Money wise, maybe, but they'll be hard pressed to justify a preorder on DA3 from me.

SWTOR is developed from the same company. If they made some mistakes once, they might redo them no?


SWTOR and DA2 are developed by different branches of BioWare Mythic. They have different studios in different places. In fact you can see from the timeline that SWTOR has literally been in development simultaneously for the entire time DA2 went from planning to release (and much longer). Sure they might share ideas and maybe even a few people on the teams but it's not like it's the exact same dudes writing both games.

That having been said, I loved DA2. I liked the epic plotline of DA:O and I for entirely different reasons loved the very personal rise to power plotline of DA2. They do very different things and both worked well.
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Re: Dragon Age 2

Postby sahiel » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:48 pm

laterna wrote:When a company has the "talent,magic, whatever" into it, it just has it. No blizzard game was a failure. Diablo2, SC1, SC1:BW, SC2, WoW,WoWExpansions. All of them were huge sucesses. Is DA2 the same success DA1 was? Money wise, maybe, but they'll be hard pressed to justify a preorder on DA3 from me.

SWTOR is developed from the same company. If they made some mistakes once, they might redo them no?

If by 'huge success' you mean monetarily, then yes, basically every Bioware game has been a huge sucess. If you mean a 'popular success' with the public, then again, every Bioware game fits that criteria. You're judging DA2 on its personal success with you, and that's fine, but you can't then compare them to Blizzard games without adding that it's simply your personal opinion.

Case in point, I hated Diablo, HATED it. I thought it was repetitive, unimaginative and overall one of the most terribly boring games I'd ever seen. Does this mean that Blizzard made 'mistakes' and thus they might redo them in other games?

Blizzard and Bioware both have an excellent track record of success fiscally and critically, that doesn't mean everyone will like everything they do, equally it doesn't mean one failure to please some people is a death knell for the studios ability to make great games. By your logic I should have considered everything Blizzard released after Diablo to be suspect, instead, I would rather judge a game by how good that game is itself, seems like a pretty fair system to use imo.
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Re: Dragon Age 2

Postby Vanifae » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:12 pm

sahiel wrote:Blizzard and Bioware both have an excellent track record of success fiscally and critically, that doesn't mean everyone will like everything they do, equally it doesn't mean one failure to please some people is a death knell for the studios ability to make great games. By your logic I should have considered everything Blizzard released after Diablo to be suspect, instead, I would rather judge a game by how good that game is itself, seems like a pretty fair system to use imo.

I agree with this.

I find the Pokeman games terrible, but most of my friends love the series. Does that Pokeman a terrible game, for me yes, but objectively from a general reception standpoint it must have something that keeps people coming back to it. I think one must reconcile personal taste with overall success of a product and not confuse the two.
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Re: Dragon Age 2

Postby Hrobertgar » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:47 pm

From the playstyle described on the SWTOR website, the game sounds like its played a lot like the failed star trek game. You have followers and there is some simplistic ship combat. However, they do seem to have a much deeper storyline. I will probably try it at least, but we'll see, I'll probably have to get the lightsaber game for Kinect when it comes out as well.
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Re: Dragon Age 2

Postby Fivelives » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:41 pm

Passionario wrote:
Fivelives wrote:I guess there's just a very noticeable feeling that no matter what you choose, you're railroaded to where the developers want you. Take the templar vs mage path - even if you side with the templars, the mages still revolt all through Denerim (and beyond?). It would've been better if, instead of fighting both of them, you fought the head mage in the templar playthrough, thus putting down the rebellion, or fought the head templar in the mage playthrough, sparking a worldwide rebellion.


Varric can adjust certain details in his narration of Champion's story, but he can't rewrite established historical facts.


Bioware is writing the champion's story. They obviously didn't spend time or disk space on dungeons or world areas, so what was preventing them, exactly, from having a templar ending and a mage ending? Or even a third ending where Hawke tells them both to go get fucked and rides off into the sunset with his/her family (whatever's left of it)?

They packed 6 origin stories that were all detailed and well-thought out, as well as 4 separate ending tracks (at the very minimum, I count alistair sacrifice, loghain sacrifice, alistair ritual, player ritual - and then the human female noble option of marrying alistair into the mix) into DA:O. Then they follow it up with DA2? It feels like a slap in the face, frankly. I don't mind that it was a more individual story instead of "zomg save the world AGAIN". I don't mind that it took place in a limited area. I do have to wonder - where's the development in the game? To me, this is a glorified Awakenings DLC.

Actually, I think I just hit the nail on the head. I was wondering why I didn't really love the game, and it didn't occur to me until just now as I typed that - this game does everything Awakening did wrong.

Mage/templar = architect/queen
Kirkwall = mashup of warden's fortress and amaranthine

Hell, you even had more options in the ridiculously overpriced DLC endgame than you did in the full-priced sequel - you could choose whether to save the city or the keep in the endgame. In DA2, you get no choices whatsoever. It plays out from point A to point B; the only difference is a little bit of dialogue.
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Re: Dragon Age 2

Postby Passionario » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:23 am

The merits and flaws of actual game content are in the eyes of the beholder.

However, if SWTOR has the same level of technical support and bugfixing that DA:O, DA:A and DA2 had, I won't touch it with a 200-foot pole.

Last weeked, when EA had a problem with its DA:O authentication servers (causing all of my honestly-bought DLCs to be automatically flagged as "Unauthorized" and making existing savegames unable to be loaded without creating stability issues), I had to wait for four days and then do a full reinstall from scratch. And that's for a single-player game - I shudder at the thought of them handling the support of a full-fledged MMORPG.
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Re: Dragon Age 2

Postby Chicken » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:39 am

Hrobertgar wrote:From the playstyle described on the SWTOR website, the game sounds like its played a lot like the failed star trek game. You have followers and there is some simplistic ship combat. However, they do seem to have a much deeper storyline.
That could work out well really. The biggest flaw in the Star Trek MMO (Well... Apart from the fact that the Klingons could basically only level through PvP while the Federation had way more PvE content and the same PvP content) was its ground combat, its space combat was pretty good if a bit slow-paced in the end game. Most BioWare games have had pretty good 'ground combat', so if you were to combine it with STO's space combat you'd have a pretty good gameplay basis to build on.
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Re: Dragon Age 2

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:23 am

Hrobertgar wrote:From the playstyle described on the SWTOR website, the game sounds like its played a lot like the failed star trek game.

Wait a sec, since when did STO fail? Still running pretty strong from what I understand.
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Re: Dragon Age 2

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:25 am

Fivelives wrote:They packed 6 origin stories that were all detailed and well-thought out, as well as 4 separate ending tracks (at the very minimum, I count alistair sacrifice, loghain sacrifice, alistair ritual, player ritual - and then the human female noble option of marrying alistair into the mix) into DA:O. Then they follow it up with DA2? It feels like a slap in the face, frankly. I don't mind that it was a more individual story instead of "zomg save the world AGAIN". I don't mind that it took place in a limited area. I do have to wonder - where's the development in the game? To me, this is a glorified Awakenings DLC.


Sooo more endings = more development?

Actually, I think I just hit the nail on the head. I was wondering why I didn't really love the game, and it didn't occur to me until just now as I typed that - this game does everything Awakening did wrong.

Mage/templar = architect/queen
Kirkwall = mashup of warden's fortress and amaranthine


I liked Awakenings...

Hell, you even had more options in the ridiculously overpriced DLC endgame than you did in the full-priced sequel - you could choose whether to save the city or the keep in the endgame. In DA2, you get no choices whatsoever. It plays out from point A to point B; the only difference is a little bit of dialogue.


So essentially your beef with the game is the lack of diversity in the plot outcomes based on player choice? Is that why other people disliked the game too? I'm still trying to figure out why the Internet at large had such a problem with it.
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