This is why games are pirated so heavily.

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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Io.Draco » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:08 am

Since I made this thread about Starcraft II originally. I am put off by those waiting for a pirated version of the game which allows LAN play...

One thing is singleplayer, but really I hate those that try and justify pirating the game for LAN play, just to play with close friends.

Hello, did anyone miss the Private Custom Game feature on Bnet?!
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby hoho » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:53 am

Flex wrote:Copy protected digital media is the only case that matters when testing the legality of the DMCA since the DMCA specifically makes it illegal to circumvent copy protection measures.
Just a small note, DMCA is US-only law, it's not international. What's illegal in US often isn't in other places and vice versa. For example from what I remember in EU it's perfectly legal to reverse-engineer anything in order to provide better compatibility. In US that should be way bigger crime than copyright infringement.
Io.Draco wrote:Hello, did anyone miss the Private Custom Game feature on Bnet?!
Haven't tried MP yet but can I invite others there besides my realID friends?
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Io.Draco » Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:04 am

Haven't tried MP yet but can I invite others there besides my realID friends?


You can only invite those on your friend list, yes, but that just means you need to add everyone who wishes to play that game into your friend list.

I miss the chat lobbies though.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Krazed » Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:35 am

Io.Draco wrote:Since I made this thread about Starcraft II originally. I am put off by those waiting for a pirated version of the game which allows LAN play...

One thing is singleplayer, but really I hate those that try and justify pirating the game for LAN play, just to play with close friends.



You are aware that this was major turn off for some people in buying the game, but they bought it any way. Why was/is it a turn off LAN parties with your buddies, it was/still is one of the most played games on a LAN. Nothing like eating a bag of cheetos and screaming at your buddy across the room eat it as a zerg wave is sent in. Does it make it right not really, but I can understand the appeal to it tho.

DMCA For the record is one big contradiction inside of a contradiction. The idiots guide to the law is "you can copy anything and everything, but you cannot distribute it." If know where its going on at report it and go to bed with a clean conscious.

Also digital downloads, Steam, and itunes are all amazing steps forward into embracing the technology age. Don't hate because blizzard stock prices didn't go up 8 cents. From a hippie green stand point it saves the environment as well. The axe I would grind is that the cost per unit is cheaper per download so why does it cost the same? Oh wait this is blizzard they can't make a stable server to save their lives.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Chicken » Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:45 am

Krazed wrote:The axe I would grind is that the cost per unit is cheaper per download so why does it cost the same?
Not getting into the headache that's the rest of the discussion here, but that's likely because most of the costs of game development are the actual development; the actual production of the boxes, discs and what not is relatively inexpensive. While I don't have the exact numbers, I expect that if they were to price things cheaper so they kept the same profit per unit sold on digital copies as they get on physical copies, we'd likely have a price difference of one buck. There's also other costs involved with digital distribution that you don't have for physical copies; the bandwidth and servers aren't free.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby hoho » Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:51 am

Chicken wrote:I expect that if they were to price things cheaper so they kept the same profit per unit sold on digital copies as they get on physical copies, we'd likely have a price difference of one buck.
Maybe if you could buy the box directly from Blizzard. Add in a whole bunch of steps the box goes through from blizz to retail and you'll get significantly higher prices.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Flex » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:36 am

hoho wrote:Just a small note, DMCA is US-only law, it's not international. What's illegal in US often isn't in other places and vice versa. For example from what I remember in EU it's perfectly legal to reverse-engineer anything in order to provide better compatibility. In US that should be way bigger crime than copyright infringement.


Pretty sure the EUCD is just as restrictive. http://www.euro-copyrights.org/index/13/52 Sections 3 to 6.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Freyas » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:33 am

Chicken wrote:
Krazed wrote:The axe I would grind is that the cost per unit is cheaper per download so why does it cost the same?
Not getting into the headache that's the rest of the discussion here, but that's likely because most of the costs of game development are the actual development; the actual production of the boxes, discs and what not is relatively inexpensive. While I don't have the exact numbers, I expect that if they were to price things cheaper so they kept the same profit per unit sold on digital copies as they get on physical copies, we'd likely have a price difference of one buck. There's also other costs involved with digital distribution that you don't have for physical copies; the bandwidth and servers aren't free.


Actually, there's a significant difference in profits for the game company between digital sales(especially from an internal site like the blizzard store) and retail copies from someplace like Gamestop. If you buy a digital copy directly from the company, there's negligible costs for distribution. Going through a third party digital distribution like Steam or Direct2Drive reduces that somewhat, as the distributing company takes a share of the profits. Selling physical copies nets even less, due to the costs of producing the box/dvd/manual/etc, shipping costs, as well as the cut that the retailer takes. The game company might see 20-30 dollars return off of a copy of the game sold from Gamestop, but they'll get the entire $50 from purchases made directly from them.

Digital copies aren't sold any cheaper than retail copies, however, because if you could buy games for cheaper online than through retailers, the retailers won't carry your games and will potentially boycott or badmouth your company. Game companies aren't ready to give the finger to brick-and-mortar stores, since a significant portion of their sales comes from those venues. That, and the fact that people will buy the digital versions at those prices and give the companies more money.

Interestingly, purchasing collector's editions doesn't tend to give the game developer much more money than buying the original game. It depends on the game, but the difference in $ between the regular version and the CE is typically pretty close to the additional cost of the goodies in the CE. If you're really wanting to support the developer, purchasing games digitally, and buying perks if available (minipets, mounts, etc in WoW, eg) will help the developer the most.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Passionario » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:33 pm

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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby ulushnar » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:57 pm

Io.Draco wrote:Since I made this thread about Starcraft II originally. I am put off by those waiting for a pirated version of the game which allows LAN play...

One thing is singleplayer, but really I hate those that try and justify pirating the game for LAN play, just to play with close friends.

Hello, did anyone miss the Private Custom Game feature on Bnet?!


So in your mind, theft for one purpose is more acceptable than theft for another?
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:54 pm

Flex wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:Again you are referring specifically to movies, and only those that contain a sort of copy protection, that's a pretty limited scope in the much broader category of digital media.


Copy protected digital media is the only case that matters when testing the legality of the DMCA since the DMCA specifically makes it illegal to circumvent copy protection measures.

You could always use AnyDVD.


Just going by the wording on the AnyDVD website I am pretty sure it is technically illegal in the US.

Kelaan wrote:If you could make bit-perfect copies of a DVD image, and burn them to a disc with encryption intact, you wouldn't have circumvented the technical barriers (which the DMCA prohibits).


From my understanding RealDVD did exactly that, except the burning part, and even tied the ripped image to the hard drive it was saved to so you couldn't even transfer it from your desktop to a laptop.

But the question was about making a copy of something, nothing specific. So when you say something like:
Flex wrote:Legal: backing up your DVDs. Not legal: Making software that allows you to back up your DVDs.
when you are only referring to copy protected stuff, you need to say so, otherwise that's just not accurate.

I do not know if AnyDVD is legal here, and to my knowledge it hasn't be adjudicated here, so there's really no way to tell, especially with recent rulings.

If I was concerned about losing my copy protected media, I'd be using it.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Kelaan » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:05 am

Shathus wrote:Is there are difference between having a physical copy in the form of a CD/DVD and having a digital copy on your hard drive then? Wouldn't both be theft? Yes the arguments in this thread seem to indicate otherwise


If you take my physical CD, I no longer have that CD. This is theft.
If you board my seagoing vessel and threaten (or harm) me in order to take my CD, that is piracy.

If you make a flawless copy of my CD, I still have my CD, but you have one too. I haven't been paid for that copy, but I still have not lost my copy. This is not theft (and neither is it piracy), it's copying. If the CD's nature is copyrighted, then it's copyright infringement to do so -- but not theft. If the license for the copy of my CD (or bits) says that I'm free to give a copy to anyone, then it's not infringement when you make a copy of my CD (or bits).

Theft deprives someone of capital that they previously had. Copying does not. Note that I'm not saying that such copying is always good or ethical, either -- I like the idea of artists and programmers getting paid too. It's just not theft.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Gladia » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:23 pm

Krazed wrote:Oh wait this is blizzard they can't make a stable server to save their lives.


Its difficult to maintain a cluster of servers that several hundred thousand people access. It not just one server either, what appears to be one server may consist of a single point that distributes the load across hundreds of servers, failures are common in environments like that, and usually are handled by the redundancy of the distribution point. But sometimes, one fails, and the load balancing portion of the array doesn't know that it failed, or doesn't know how to handle the failure, it affects the entire array, as it is still trying to send data to that server. If there is 2 failures, it pretty much means higher cpu and memory load on the others left, which significantly impacts the entire array, even just 1 server could be up to 10% or more load on the servers.

Then another factor that comes into play is internet traffic and congestion, or if a link is down and the traffic is running off a backup that is slower, that is out of Blizzard's control.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Dorvan » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:49 pm

Kelaan wrote:If you board my seagoing vessel and threaten (or harm) me in order to take my CD, that is piracy.


I heard that language evolves and words can take on additional meanings.

See also "to steal an idea"...a phrase which to my knowledge long predates electronic copying.
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