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This is why games are pirated so heavily.

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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Io.Draco » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:42 am

We already established it's not legal in yours.


You didn't establish anything. Dorvan simply pointed a flaw in my argument, because of a certain article. After discussing the matter with a neighbor of mine who is a lawyer and searching on Romanian articles I later realized it is indeed legal to get things that way.

Found it irrelevant to mention until now, since discussing things in the broader sense would mean accounting the laws of every country, and the fact remains in some it is legal in others not.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Vanifae » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:44 am

It would have been relevant to mention earlier but if it is legal in your country to download IP for free without compensating the creator then go on my wayward son and do what you do.

That seems terribly backward to me but I am not Romanian and I have to abide by the laws of the US which in that case would make me a thief.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Io.Draco » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:47 am

that seems terribly backward to me .....


Trust me....backward wouldn't even BEGIN to describe many Romanian laws...

But out of a curiosity of mine, can anyone link the USA Copyright Law? I am not the best on to read into it but just to satisfy my curiosity.

It would have been relevant to mention earlier


Perhaps, but my debate was never about what happens only in my country. I only mentioned the law in Romania to point out that it is not the same in the whole world.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Vanifae » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:52 am

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/

Upon further review I am not seeing how you get that you can download a product, computer game software for free without permission from the copyright owner.

I may just be reading this wrong but it seems pretty much inline with what I suspected. Going through the Romanian copyright law.

Edit: I say it would be relevant because if you make the claim that other countries differ in their definition then it would be good to have solid example as reference..
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Dorvan » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:11 am

Io.Draco wrote:
We already established it's not legal in yours.


You didn't establish anything. Dorvan simply pointed a flaw in my argument, because of a certain article. After discussing the matter with a neighbor of mine who is a lawyer and searching on Romanian articles I later realized it is indeed legal to get things that way.


Interesting...have a source to back up that claim? Everything I've read says Romania has been reforming their copyright law esp wrt software to software in order to court the EU among other things. It looks like about 70% of home software is pirated, so it wouldn't surprise me at all that there's a meme that it's legal after all, but that's a far cry from it truly being legal.
Last edited by Dorvan on Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Io.Draco » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:13 am

Upon further review I am not seeing how you get that you can download a product, computer game software for free without permission from the copyright owner.


I don't exactly know how it works, and I don't rightly care to ask about the specifics. All I know is that everyone I have asked about this in my country said that as long as it is for personal use only, it is legal to download. It is illegal to upload or give it to others though.

I know the Copyright Law seems to indicate something else, but well... let's just say the legal system is a convoluted mess here.

Interesting...have a source to back up that claim?


I will try and find an article for you in English, but I doubt I will. ( It was hard enough to find a few in Romanian )
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Dorvan » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:15 am

Io.Draco wrote:I will try and find an article for you in English, but I doubt I will. ( It was hard enough to find a few in Romanian )


Perhaps an indication that the law is as simple as it reads and the articles are strained attempts to interpret it away? At any rate, if notinhg else, Google does support Romanian -> English...which isn't ideal, but better than nothing.

You other comment seems to indicate exactly what I said: "it's common knowledge", which is far from legal reality....more of a "but everyone's doing it, so it must be okay" situation.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Io.Draco » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:19 am

Perhaps an indication that the law is as simple as it reads and the articles are strained attempts to interpret it away?


Perhaps, perhaps not. I will have to dig in my browser history to find one in Romanian for you, which will take hours.

"it's common knowledge", which is far from legal reality....more of a "but everyone's doing it, so it must be okay" situation.


Even among those with Law School finished? It could just very well that the law is strained, but that doesn't make it illegal.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Io.Draco » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:25 am

Ok Dorvan, here is a very short article from the site of the very Organization who takes care that those that upload are sent to prison.

There is no such thing. In fact, today, the Law does not incriminate the download of pirated files. But the sharing! Nobody will be inculpated if downloaded something on the Internet and keep it for himself. Our job is to identify illegal source and to stop or diminish as much work.
So, carefully! If you download, this is it. .. But DO NOT put it on share or pass it to others, because this act is criminalized!


http://aimr.ro/index.php?option=com_con ... id=49:faqs
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Dorvan » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:30 am

That's from a music industry group...and we've already established that downloading music for personal use is not illegal under current Romanian law.

As for the law school quip...going to law school doesn't mean you're an expert of all areas of the law....there's are many specializations, and outside of your own expertise you many have only a vague idea of the what the state of the law is. It's no more accurate than saying the anyone with an MD must know all there is to know about medicine.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Io.Draco » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:50 am

Ok...so here I was able to determine, along with a headache mind you, regarding PC programs.

After reading through dozens of articles on the matter, all I was able to determine is that if companies use download software without a license they risk a heavy fine and some people going to Jail, however in none of the Articles I have read does it mention anything about personal use in either way.

And yes, piracy rates are very high here, but that's mostly involves films and music not PC programs.

I doubt anyone outside companies owns a copy of Windows though.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Dorvan » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:54 am

Io.Draco wrote:After reading through dozens of articles on the matter, all I was able to determine is that if companies use download software without a license they risk a heavy fine and some people going to Jail, however in none of the Articles I have read does it mention anything about personal use in either way.


Given that, I don't think it's radical to suggest that what the law says is accurate. It may not be prosecuted aggressively or at all, but it seems pretty certain that it's illegal.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Io.Draco » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:00 am

True enough, but all the same I do not think it is radical to suggest it is indeed legal. I know it would be easy to say the authorities don't do their job, but I know well enough that they are simply overwhelmed by sheer amount of illegal stuff that goes around here but they DO bring people to justice that break that law.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Dorvan » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:04 am

Io.Draco wrote:True enough, but all the same I do not think it is radical to suggest it is indeed legal. I know it would be easy to say the authorities don't do their job, but I know well enough that they are simply overwhelmed by sheer amount of illegal stuff that goes around here but they DO bring people to justice that break that law.


The only piece of evidence we have is the actual law, which is completely unambiguous on this point. Yes, I would say it's pretty unreasonable to assume copying software is legal given the evidence.

I mean, that really shouldn't be that surprising....even in the US only a tiny fraction of those would pirate are ever prosecuted for it.
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Re: This is why games are pirated so heavily.

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:20 am

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