Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

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Which one of these?

2010 Dodge Challenger R/T
6
17%
2011 Ford Mustang GT
13
37%
2010 Dodge Charger R/T
4
11%
2010 Chevy Camaro SS
12
34%
 
Total votes : 35

Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Invisusira » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:50 am

Goins2754 wrote:No offense to the OP, but buying one of these is like buying a $45,000 ticket to the bandwagon express. I'd suggest not doing it.

Do you know how badass a old Mustang or and old GTO would be if you bought one and put that $45,000 into upgrades? It would easily blow all of those cars out of the water. Not to mention, you could drop some cash on a nice custom paint job or even some, dare I say it, but spinners [ugh].

That's just me, though. I've never been the type to jump on these bandwagons & I love seeing 40 year old dads driving these around town to get groceries. I often want to pull up next to them at one of the 1000 stoplights here in Chicago & ask them, "did you win the race?" They'll be confused, but they'll figure it out when they think about it.

BTW, I drive an '02 Honda CR-V & a '92 Honda Civic. I bought them because Hondas have a reputation for longevity, safety, & fuel mileage. That's exactly what I want out of a daily driver. The Civic is up to 202,000 miles & I've only ever replaced the rotor & distributor because of component failure. I also have an old Jeep that is my offroad toy when I want to go out and get muddy. I picked it up used for $4000. If I had spent $35000 on a new Rubicon, I'd have a really nice offroad vehicle. If I spent $31000 in upgrades on this old Jeep of mine...Gah! I'd have full tube roll cage, lift kit, air lockers, 38s, winch, Rhinolined floor boards, 5-point harnesses... You get my point. :)

Either way, good luck in your decision.

And no offense to you, but I'm pretty sure he's looking for a new car. Yeah, it's fun to fix up a car and mod it out, especially old ones. (Talking from experience.) But it's also nice to just have a CAR. Not having to worry about "oh you gotta fiddle this to get this to work" or "you have to close this this certain way" or "I wish my car wasn't 40 years old and the AC worked."
The elitism at the stoplight is something I grew out of long, long ago. Yeah, there's a lot of people driving around in modern muscle cars that have no intention of racing them. So what? They have a racing heritage, sure, but that's not their main purpose. I love driving, and I love racing. But a lot of people just want their transportation to look good, and run like a modern vehicle should. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Can you buy a Fox body and jam $40k worth of upgrades into it, making it a racing monster? Sure. Will it be a practical, modern car? Not a chance in hell. (I'd also be interested in seeing how that old Mustang/GTO went around a CORNER, even after $45k worth of upgrades. :3 )
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:58 am

Get a Volvo.

Goddamn steel tank on wheels.

All it needs is a turret.
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Invisusira » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:00 am

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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Goins2754 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:30 am

Ask and you shall receive?

Anywho, to debate this with the legendary contrarian Invis, all of my $45,000 upgrade kit wouldn't be on the engine. You have to buy other things like brakes, good gripping tires, ect. If an 800 hp NASCAR can hug corners at Watkins Glen, then I'm sure that a beefed up GTO could do the same.

I will concede, however, that building up a car isn't everyone's cup of tea. It's certainly not mine & if I had that money, half of it would go to beer to pay cheap labor from Craigslist to put on the upgrades I bought. I can kinda understand the racing heritage daily driver...kinda. I mean, it doesn't really make sense to me to spend that much money on something that has a top speed (legally) of 65 (in Illinois) and a top speed (realistically) of 25 because of all the traffic and stoplights here.

If I were to suggest the best possible car to buy for real life driving situations, it's probably gonna be something super comfortable with a high quality sound system. 90% of cars out there can get up to the speeds that most normal people are willing to drive, so that's not really an issue. The only thing engine power will help is that epeen flex when you race from stop light to stop light. And then you get your d*** knocked in the dirt by some guy racing an '05 Civic with NOS and you want to cry because you spent $45000 & he spent $12000.

Buy something like this: http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/ca ... gen_Jetta/

You've saved yourself a ton of money, it doesn't have planned obsolesence like American cars do (I don't think it does, at least), it's pretty sporty, and it's not gonna kill your bank (either at the pump or at the register). The Germans have a history of building cars for the "driving experience." I'd wager something like this is probably one of the best daily drivers out there.
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Invisusira » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:44 am

Anyone who spends $45k on an engine without touching the brakes or suspension needs to....
well, drive their newly modded car. That'll get them all the punishment they need.

Case in point tho, looks like he's got his heart set on a new muscle car. Thread's not really here to bash them.
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Kelaan » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:59 am

Flex wrote:The charger on one hand is awesome because it is a 4 door muscle car which is just below a muscle wagon/estate on the coolness level. However I dislike the looks a lot.

The Charger is like a perfect midlife-crisis car.

- muscle car: duh.
- seats 4: sometimes you want to go out with more than the wife.
- looks schweet. Your opinion may vary.
- It's very comfy inside. :-)

OTOH, my friend bought a used BMW for probably a similar amount ... and holy hell I want one.
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Marwan » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:28 am

Nikachelle wrote:Get a Volvo.

Goddamn steel tank on wheels.

All it needs is a turret.


This lady knows what she's talkin' bout. :)
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Fivelives » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:43 am

Invisusira wrote:And no offense to you, but I'm pretty sure he's looking for a new car. Yeah, it's fun to fix up a car and mod it out, especially old ones. (Talking from experience.) But it's also nice to just have a CAR. Not having to worry about "oh you gotta fiddle this to get this to work" or "you have to close this this certain way" or "I wish my car wasn't 40 years old and the AC worked."


So
Much
THIS.

I've got a 68 Mustang fastback, and a 78 Jaguar XK-R. I'm restoring a 63 Shelby Cobra and I'm thinking about getting a 73 Charger as my next restoration project.

But they all take more time than I've got to keep running. They're also LOADED with "personality".

The Mustang - hood sticks, have to start it a half hour before driving it if I want to take it for a spin in the winter, doesn't have a/c and I have to run the heater if I don't want the engine to overheat in the Arizona summer.

The Jag - yeah. Good luck keeping this beast running. There's a reason it got a reputation for being a mechanic's car. I just don't have the time to keep it going, so it's parked.

The Cobra is where all of my "Yo dawg, I herd you like cars" fund is going, currently.

Oh - and yes, I will probably be racing whatever car I get. That just isn't my main goal in buying the new car. All four of the options would make great touring cars (even if some are more comfortable for long-distance driving than the others).

Also:
Anywho, to debate this with the legendary contrarian Invis, all of my $45,000 upgrade kit wouldn't be on the engine. You have to buy other things like brakes, good gripping tires, ect. If an 800 hp NASCAR can hug corners at Watkins Glen, then I'm sure that a beefed up GTO could do the same.


Edit: Finally got new tabs to load. Pesky virus.

Nascars weigh 3400 pounds to race. I imagine the banked turns would have some effect there. I've driven a beefed up GTO, and compared to the rx-7 or another light tuner car, it handles like a dying whale.
Last edited by Fivelives on Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Flex » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:58 am

Nikachelle wrote:Get a Volvo.

Goddamn steel tank on wheels.

All it needs is a turret.


when I was looking for a new car when I got the current one I was looking for V70Rs
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby knaughty » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:12 pm

My Jag was the 50's version of the 4-door muscle car - same motor as the cars that were winning Le Mans all through the 50s (C and D type Jaguars). First large-scale full-size production sedan to do 100 MPH. I've had it 8 months, it's never broken down.

I've done a "just bought it" full service, which included a front suspension rebuild that I knew I'd have to do when I purchased the car. I also did some minor brake work and fitted a full set of seat-belts and child-restraint anchors. I'll do an oil change minor service shortly that will cost a couple-hundred instead of $23 or whatever it costs to spin a filter onto a GM. Service intervals are a hell of a lot shorter as well - every 2,500 miles instead of 15,000.

It's 53 years old. I drive it to work in Sydney CBD peak-hour traffic. Doesn't overheat in mid-summer Sydney temperatures. Good heater in winter. I may add a Vintage Air A/C for next summer. It seats 5 in comfort, 6 if you get the auto with the front bench seat. My wife finds it more comfortable as a passenger than our "modern".

It gets cheers, waves, thumbs up, endless smiles and shouts of "Awesome car!" driving to and from work.

It cost $14,000 Australian, plus $3,000 to do the "post purchase" work I wanted done. That's about $15k US.

You can get a good classic car for not much money. But they're an old car! My car has no power steering, no AC, no seat-belts till I added them, no ABS, no crumple zones (other than the hatchback I'm going to squish like a bug if that's what I hit). It needs to be serviced every year. It uses a LOT of fuel in heavy traffic or if you mash the throttle - cruising around on good roads at 50 MPH it is actually pretty good on gas - 20-23 MPG. More like 12 round town, or if I decide to show people that it's actually quick.

In every practical sense other than size and comfort, my hatchback is a better car. Given the choice, I drive the Jag almost every time.

But it was bought VERY carefully. 50s and early 60s Jags are from the era when they were built incredibly well. I wouldn't expect a late 60s or *shudder* 70s-80s Jag to be reliable unless it had been fully rebuilt. So I was starting with a car that was put together right. My one has had 3 owners, done 40k miles, always garaged, has a full service history, documented back to the first service (I have the docket). I looked for 6 months before I found one I liked, and had to fly 1,000 miles to see it, then ship it back on a truck. I also have to buy parts form the US and UK, get service done by over-priced specialists, and be willing to live with a car thats 50 years old.

If you're an enthusiast, it seems mad to buy a new car. If you're not... you'd be mad to by a classic.
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby knaughty » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:30 pm

Fivelives wrote: a 78 Jaguar XK-R

<snip>

The Jag - yeah. Good luck keeping this beast running. There's a reason it got a reputation for being a mechanic's car. I just don't have the time to keep it going, so it's parked.

May sound dumb, but if you want a reliable Jaguar, get an OLDER one. You want a '67 or earlier, or a Ford-built Jaguar with a V8 in it. It you get a 70s or 80s one, it needs to have been rebuilt, because the factory sure as hell didn't put it together right, and that was thirty years ago.

Also: Something about "78 Jaguar XK-R" is a typo :). They only started making the XK-R in 1996. In '78 they were making the XJ-S, XJ-C, XJ-6 and XJ-12.
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Fivelives » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:40 pm

Yeah, no idea how I fucked that up, other than perhaps because it's been garaged under a car cover since getting it shipped back from Germany in '02. Next time I visit the hometown, I'll edit it (if I remember, not planning on visiting until December, at the earliest). I remember the year though, since that's the year I was born ;)

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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby knaughty » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:14 pm

'78 Jaguars:

Seats: 2 or 4? If 2 seats: XJ-S

If four seats - how many doors?

2 doors: XJ-C

If four doors: 6-cylinder = XJ6, 12 cylinder = XJ12 (both "Series 2" XJs.)
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Fivelives » Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:19 am

It's an XJ-S, then. Thanks for the flowchart, knaughty (lol).
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Arnock » Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:44 pm

Haven't driven any of the above, but a friend of mine test drove the camaro SS and said it had some trouble cornering, and didn't shift very smoothly.
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby aranil » Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:56 pm

I'm saying the camero, but its more of a "lesser of evils" opition. Unless the mustang got a big overhaul, I've never found them comfortable to drive in. Leg room of a small box, and I'm not that big. dodges, actually I've heard nothing about dodges, so you could go with no news is good news thing.

I don't know, I prefer my little honda cause the thing doesn't know what quit means, untill I blew the raditor, but even then, the thing didn't really stop
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Fivelives » Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:38 pm

The general lee from the Dukes of Hazzard was a 1969 Dodge Charger. The car that Michael Westen (from Burn Notice) drives is a 73 Charger rallye edition.

From the reviews I've been reading, the Challenger is probably the most likely candidate for handling and comfort, but probably not the best racer.

Mustang > Camaro > Challenger > Charger in the raceability ranks
Charger > Challenger > Camaro > Mustang as far as comfort is concerned

Dodge makes great muscle cars, even if they kind of fell off the map with the (almost) 30 year break between their last entry into the pony car division, and when they picked it back up with the 2008 Charger.
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Fivelives » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:36 am

I went and test drove all 4, and here's my impressions of them:

Mustang: sporty, responsive steering with minimal over/under steering issues. It handles great, the suspension is nice and stiff, and I felt like I was taking off in a fighter jet when I floored it from a dead stop. Sadly, the salesman wouldn't let me drift it, he was pretty white-knuckled throughout the test drive (note: get new salesman). As far as comfort is concerned, I felt like a square peg that got hammered into a round hole that was too small for it - this DEFINITELY isn't a car I'd want to drive for more than an hour at a time. There was also a lot of noise transfer from the ground inside the car.

Camaro: noticeable delay between steering and car response, HUGE over/under steering issues. Doesn't handle all that great in a turn, and I felt/heard tire slippage while taking turns at "safe" speeds. Going on/off a freeway on-ramp at 10mph over was definitely not something I'll do again with a salesperson in the car. Flooring it from a dead stop didn't give the same feel as the mustang, but I didn't expect as much from this car, either. Comfort-wise, it was a touch better than the mustang, but I still had to sit on the right side of the driver's seat and was jammed up against the console. It's not a car that I'd want to take on road trips, but wouldn't be bad for a few hours at a time.

Charger: it's a BOAT. Handled well for a sedan, no over/under steering issues. The suspension was ridiculously soft, but I didn't get any bump transfers from the road. Not a car I'd want to race in, it seems like Dodge is relying on the charger name to get the mid-life crowd - my initial impression before driving the actual car was right: it's a mid-life crisis compromise car. Sporty enough to satisfy someone that doesn't intend to use it as an actual performance car, roomy enough to accomodate the wife and kids. Comfort-wise, it was great, except that I like to drive with my seat back in a reclined position, and sedan seats just don't feel "right". It's like sitting on someone else's recliner chair, no matter how comfortable it is, it's not YOUR chair.

Challenger: I didn't expect it to handle and perform as well as it did. With a curb weight over the 2 ton mark, I expected it to be unresponsive, but it handled with minimal slippage and no over/under steering issues. The suspension is soft, and when I took a tight corner it felt like I was in a roller coaster and it's the first time in a long time that I've felt a rush like I was about to roll over. All 4 tires stayed on the ground though, but I think if I took a tight turn sufficiently fast I'd end up on 2 wheels. Off the line at a dead stop, I'd put it as easily comparable to the Camaro and slightly behind the Mustang, which was kind of expected. Also, holy hell I didn't expect it to be as comfortable as it is. I'm honestly surprised more people didn't vote for this option in the poll.
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Arcand » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:02 pm

Fivelives wrote:I'm honestly surprised more people didn't vote for this option in the poll.


Well, I only voted because you said it was down to the looks. I've driven/sat in zero of the four*.

Edit: Hmm. Actually, I sat in the Knight Rider car at an auto show; what kind of car was that?

Edit 2: Pontiac Trans Am, never mind. 0/4 is correct.
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Fivelives » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:37 pm

Yeah, the looks thing was before I actually sat down in them and drove them myself. Read all the reviews and look at all the specs you want, and it still comes down to whether or not you and a car fit.

Gonna sit on it for a few weeks, then go buy one. Considering that for the cost of any of the cars, I could put a 30% downpayment on a house (or a 10% downpayment on a really nice house), it's one of those decisions I really don't want to rush into.

Oh, and I would've gone for either the 'stang or the camaro if I didn't utterly loathe them after the test drive.
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby cerwillis » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:21 pm

Fivelives wrote:Yeah, the looks thing was before I actually sat down in them and drove them myself. Read all the reviews and look at all the specs you want, and it still comes down to whether or not you and a car fit.

This. Ive seen a fair number of those Camaros in my area, and it looks like guys are practically dislocating their arms trying to rest their elbows on the window frame, because it's so high relative to the seat.
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Arnock » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:34 am

A bit late but

knaughty wrote:It cost $14,000 Australian, plus $3,000 to do the "post purchase" work I wanted done. That's about $15k US.



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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby knaughty » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:05 am

Arnock wrote:A bit late but

knaughty wrote:It cost $14,000 Australian, plus $3,000 to do the "post purchase" work I wanted done. That's about $15k US.

Image


One of my personal favourite things is to ask people who say "Awesome car!" and don't know what's it's worth: "How much do you think it's worth?"

I've had about two-dozen estimates, lowest was $30k, most are in the $50-80k range.

Gives me a warm glow.

Classic Jaguars are really good value, and cheap to maintain compared to their competitors.

Thread derail Compare and Contrast:

My Jaguar Mk VIII? Change from $20k for a good one. Link goes to the specs.

Bentley R-Type Continental? Add a zero and change the currency to Pounds Sterling.

Here's a picture of each car. See if you can say which one is which...

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Want a two-seat 150 MPH V-12 Convertible?

Jaguar E-type Series 3 $75k US or thereabouts. Described by Enzo Ferrari as "The most beautiful car ever made." Ferrari's not quite as pretty convertibles start at about a quarter-miland ramp up fast for a more desirable model.
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby -Davitz » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:15 pm

Mustang- Cramped, no trunk, annoying to drive, no back seat. Go with the 2011 5.0 or not at all. The 4.0L v6 and 4.6L v8 is UNDERPOWERED. Interior isn't so bad on the optioned out ones and is decent in the 2011's.

Camaro SS- Its a dog. It only traps 2mph and 0.20x in the 1/4 faster than the Challenger and Charger SRT8 while being 270lbs lighter and having better gears through the powertrain. Interior is crap and a shoebox.

Challenger RT/SRT- Has weight issues, but deffinitley fun to drive and the Hemi sounds SWEET with SLP Loudmouth I exhaust and headers.

Charger RT/SRT- Bang for the buck here....especially if you go for a used 2006/07. RT's in the 06/07 range go for 15k and the SRT's go in the low 20k range. Best interior between the Stang, Camaro for the price. Same car as the Chally minus the rear diff (Getrag LSD with 3.06 gears) and its slightly longer and weighs a whole 50lbs more. EXCELLENT car for someone who needs the back seat. Has folding seats, large trunk space and plenty of power to boot.

Note: The 5.7L Hemi with the Road and Track package available for both the Charger and Challenger comes with an upgraded suspension and better flowing exhaust.
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Re: Buying a new car, down to 4 options. HALP

Postby Arnock » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:35 pm

knaughty wrote:Here's a picture of each car. See if you can say which one is which...



Hood ornament on the jag kinda gives it away =P
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