Webcomics! (Loads of images)

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Re: Webcomics! (Loads of images)

Postby Argali » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:19 pm

theckhd wrote:
isiz wrote:Since we do not know everything there is to know ever, we can't really say that there is no way to do such a thing. You can only prove the existence of something, you can never prove the complete absence.

Um. No. This is not a case of "we might not know how." This is a case of "cartoonist completely misunderstanding what entangled particles are, what information is, and how information is transmitted."

I will be glad to debate this with you at length, seeing as it's a side topic of my thesis research. I can also point you to hundreds of papers confirming this, both analytically and experimentally.

But in short, you cannot transfer information via entangled photons in this fashion because those photons contain no information. You need a classical (i.e. sub-luminal) channel to send information in order to make use of the entanglement properties.


What theck is saying is something like this :

Based on the current understanding of physics, information cannot be transferred faster than light, using this particular method, and he also has the literature to back him up.

What isiz says is also right, in a way, in that there's always a possiblity that there's a new discovery that changes the current accepted facts, or we find out a new way to interact with things that, in this example makes faster than light transfer of information through quantum entanglement possible.

I did read something about an experiment, where something travelled faster than light, but there was a lot of emphasis on the article to mention that faster than light travel was only possible for packets that contain no information, and that this was the only single quirky case they found it possible for.
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Re: Webcomics! (Loads of images)

Postby Njall » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:25 pm

...and with a great "whoosh", all the fun was sucked out of the room!
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Re: Webcomics! (Loads of images)

Postby Argali » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:42 pm

Argali the Funsucker.

Sounds dirty.
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Re: Webcomics! (Loads of images)

Postby Koatanga » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:42 pm

Nah, dirty is http://sexylosers.com/. Dirty and very very funny.
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Re: Webcomics! (Loads of images)

Postby isiz » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:09 pm

Krazed wrote:The OP forgot PVPonline.com, Gucomics.com, Vgcats.com, 8-bit Theater, and [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiMuWKciHlM[/url]This one >.>[/url]


Haven't been to VGcats in forever, are they updating again?
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Re: Webcomics! (Loads of images)

Postby aranil » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:14 pm

isiz wrote:
Krazed wrote:The OP forgot PVPonline.com, Gucomics.com, Vgcats.com, 8-bit Theater, and [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiMuWKciHlM[/url]This one >.>[/url]


Haven't been to VGcats in forever, are they updating again?


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Re: Webcomics! (Loads of images)

Postby Dantriges » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:15 am

And I don´t get half of the jokes, many are gross anyways.
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Re: Webcomics! (Loads of images)

Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:14 am

Argali wrote:
theckhd wrote:
isiz wrote:Since we do not know everything there is to know ever, we can't really say that there is no way to do such a thing. You can only prove the existence of something, you can never prove the complete absence.

Um. No. This is not a case of "we might not know how." This is a case of "cartoonist completely misunderstanding what entangled particles are, what information is, and how information is transmitted."

I will be glad to debate this with you at length, seeing as it's a side topic of my thesis research. I can also point you to hundreds of papers confirming this, both analytically and experimentally.

But in short, you cannot transfer information via entangled photons in this fashion because those photons contain no information. You need a classical (i.e. sub-luminal) channel to send information in order to make use of the entanglement properties.


What theck is saying is something like this :

Based on the current understanding of physics, information cannot be transferred faster than light, using this particular method, and he also has the literature to back him up.

What isiz says is also right, in a way, in that there's always a possiblity that there's a new discovery that changes the current accepted facts, or we find out a new way to interact with things that, in this example makes faster than light transfer of information through quantum entanglement possible.

I did read something about an experiment, where something travelled faster than light, but there was a lot of emphasis on the article to mention that faster than light travel was only possible for packets that contain no information, and that this was the only single quirky case they found it possible for.

They managed to make single photons travel faster than light with a fun set of lenses.
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Re: Webcomics! (Loads of images)

Postby theckhd » Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:48 am

Snake-Aes wrote:They managed to make single photons travel faster than light with a fun set of lenses.

Single photons can't do that either, as far as we know. Pretty much any time you see a news article that claims researchers have made anything travel faster than light, it's the fault of shoddy (or intentionally misleading) reporting.

Actually, I take that back. Their group velocity can exceed c, and you can play some fun tricks with tunneling and slow/fast light techniques, but none of those methods let you send information faster than c.

Though maybe this deserves its own thread if people really want to ask questions about it, so that the poor webcomic thread can continue undisturbed.
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Re: Webcomics! (Loads of images)

Postby Njall » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:03 am

you make kittah sad
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Re: Webcomics! (Loads of images)

Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:10 am

theckhd wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:They managed to make single photons travel faster than light with a fun set of lenses.

Single photons can't do that either, as far as we know. Pretty much any time you see a news article that claims researchers have made anything travel faster than light, it's the fault of shoddy (or intentionally misleading) reporting.

Actually, I take that back. Their group velocity can exceed c, and you can play some fun tricks with tunneling and slow/fast light techniques, but none of those methods let you send information faster than c.

Though maybe this deserves its own thread if people really want to ask questions about it, so that the poor webcomic thread can continue undisturbed.

Slow-light seems to be able to do differently, like photographing images in a single photon. They really seem to like what they can do with a burst of slow light to transmit large amounts of information.

Ah, here's the faster than light photon thing I mentioned. It is, as you said, playing with slow light. Dieletric gaps causing odd behaviors on single units.
Single-photon propagation through dielectric bandgaps
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Re: Webcomics! (Loads of images)

Postby theckhd » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:40 am

Funny you should've stumbled across that particular paper - my thesis topic is very similar, and I've had discussions with Paul Lett (one of the authors) about it when he visited my advisor in Rochester.

But band gap tunneling is a very special case - the tunneling appears to occur superluminally, but only for the quasi-static case. You could view it as a very specific type of pulse reshaping process, which is why you can't send information superluminally with it.

Ten years ago or so, several researchers put forth the idea that since the photon's wave packet peak was advanced compared to regular causal propagation, it meant that the photon really did travel faster than c. I think they've backed off this interpretation though, as it overlooked several important details.

<edit> I should probably also add that I'm fairly well versed in slow light as well. The paper you're referring to about imaging with slowed single photons was performed by one of my group members, and I have several (3 i think?) published papers on slow light, mostly in erbium doped fiber amplifiers.
Last edited by theckhd on Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Webcomics! (Loads of images)

Postby Njall » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:45 am

_maul13.jpg
"I feel like a fugitive from th' law of averages."
_maul13.jpg (26.82 KiB) Viewed 343 times


Good old Willie and Joe.
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Re: Webcomics! (Loads of images)

Postby Njall » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:04 am

Or, of course, Dungeons and Discourse....

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Dresden Codak is... It is what it is.
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Re: Webcomics! (Loads of images)

Postby Boyfriend » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:11 am

theckhd wrote:<edit> I should probably also add that I'm fairly well versed in slow light as well. The paper you're referring to about imaging with slowed single photons was performed by one of my group members, and I have several (3 i think?) published papers on slow light, mostly in erbium doped fiber amplifiers.


I've always wanted to ask this someone who knows something about it, but my amateurish interpretation is correct that only the propagation of light is slowed, but the speed of individual waves between interaction with the medium remains more or less constant (c)?
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