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ZA 4 Timers

Nalorakk, Akil'zon, Jan'alai, Halazzi, Malacrass, Zul'jin

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Lookit » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:14 am

Canuun wrote:Turn off all your sound except for ambient noise, and turn that all the way up. When the storm is coming, you can hear the wind and rain pick up, and this gives you just enough time to have someone call it out on vent and have everyone collapse on the tank. No fuss, no worrying about someone being too far away from the middle.


We've definitely done that in the past, and it does indeed work great, but we've found on our speed runs that it's just easier if everyone pays attention and runs under the person as soon as he begins casting it. There's no need to designate a storm-listener, no one has to mess with their sound settings, and it gets everyone paying attention. For non-timed progression attempts, I would definitely recommend that strategy, but for timed runs I would hope your group is coordinated enough to just run to the storm person.
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Postby Blitzago » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:33 pm

The best possible group I think we could put together would be like

Prot War
Enh Shammy
Rogue
Resto Shammy
Warlock

Prot pally
Ele Shammy
Holy Pally
Mage
Shadow Priest

That sounds like an insane group, all our casters have spell damage buffs, our melee have windfury and such, with chugging mana pots/hastepots/drums I think we would be decent, since all the shammies are LW and the rogue is, so thats 4 Haste drums, which we could keep up on the boss/trash almost all the time, so I believe we could make the bear quite quickly, or even possibly drop a rogue for another holy pally for a buff or something.
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Postby Dorvan » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:49 pm

Prot Warrior isn't bringing much to that group set up...more ideal would be to replace with a Feral Druid or DPS Warrior. You'd also want to swap the Prot Pally and Warlock for bosses, either that or replace the mage or warlock with a hunter.

If you're talking about the best possible group that you specifically can put together, that set up still looks pretty strong.
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Postby Blitzago » Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:22 pm

Ya thats the best I could possibly put together, our war is over 500 DPS when specced prot anyways so its not that bad.
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Postby Achtung » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:03 pm

Ran into ZA last night and got the first 3 chests. Had 7 minutes left after Jan'alai, but we knew there wasn't much point to pushing for Halazzi with that time so we went back and looted our stuff. Crap drops on the most part.

I think that we could really start pushing for bear mounts, but we only run ZA about once a month or so. This is mainly due to the amount of QQ and drama the comes from being selective in raid composition/players.

Does anyone else have these problems?

Basically, if I'm pushing for timers I want to grab the best healers and dps that I can, with a good balance of mages/spriests/locks/etc. I usually whisper people to find out if they are keen and then invite them to the raid if they are. If I simply post in guild chat "ZA anyone?" then I'll get a heap of ppl pst me and then I have to cull people out. But if I do it sneaky like, then people are all "when did the ZA run get organised?" and shit like that.

From previous experience, hand picked groups win, cobbled together groups fail, and I don't want to waste time on fails.

Thoughts?
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Postby Worldie » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:13 pm

You need to preorganize the raids, and run multiple time with the same 10 people, to get the bear.
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Postby Achtung » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:49 pm

I understand that, and which is why when a ZA run is organised we generally end up with the same group of people.

The issue isn't the speed and group composition. That is something we can work on. I just don't know how to avoid all the QQ from guildies who aren't involved in the run.
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Postby Moby » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:34 am

You probably can't do anything about that, other than to tell them that they should start their own bear runs.
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Postby Janduin » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:15 am

You need to preorganize the raids, and run multiple time with the same 10 people, to get the bear.


For your first bear, or if you are on the transition between T5 and T6 gear level, this is exactly what you want to do. However, if you are in a T6 guild...once most of your dps and healers are T6 level you have a lot more flexibility of course. I would say required would be a prot pally and a mage for sheep (and AOE), but you can get a bear with almost any group setup. We've taken to splitting our 25-man raids into 2 ZA bear groups when we stop raiding early, the groups are never ideal (mixed melee/caster, no bloodlusts makes dps sad) but we always manage to pick up 2 bears anyway.
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Postby Seloei » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:35 am

Theres nothing you can do... i run one of the 2 mount runs on our server (horde side) and keep getting asked to join from people who i have never even heard of before... The only thing you can do is say
"Sorry, we already have a closed 10-12 who the first 12 bears are going
"Try making a group yourself, best of luck to you"
"Goodbye"

if you start accepting people who werent in the initial group, you will start having problems with the real people who are in the core group complaining that why did you give away his spot? or if you rep someone who got the bear the rest will be mad that you reped him as soon as he got his bear...

Theres no easy solution, everything you do is "bad" in the eyes of the who asks or it is concerned.
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Postby kensanity » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:55 pm

I tanked my first FULL bear run last night. Some group that usually goes for bear needed an AOE tank and I dont know why they asked me but they did. Anyway, I probalby have aroun 520 spell damage fully buffed and I was quite worried that I would have aggro problems on the dps (pretty geared, but averaged only around 1.0-1.3k dps for the run)

Party makeup was

ME (prot pally)
Feral Druid (ot)
REsto Shammy
Elemental Shammy
Mage
MAge
Holy Pally
Shadow Priest
Holy Priest
Fury Warrior (I think)

We didn't have any tranq for lynx but the run was pretty successful i guess. WE got the bear with 3 minutes left on timer and we did have to rez a few people for a couple of fights.

Gear wise, I was runnin i'd say 16k unbuffed, then i only flasked and consumed in order to buff spell damage.

Truly, strong dps helps a great deal. I think one of the toughest things about the timed run is that, fights CAN be mana intensive if they drag on too long. Nothing in that zone is particularly any harder than say, kara but to do quick takes soem knowledgeable raid members. Also, for undergeared dps taht can't put out a raid average of 1k dps, u have got to find some shammies to boost overall damage. whether it be windfury for melee, wrath of air for spellcasters or just heroism, those things are a huge boost to overall damage.

If dps is able to down bosses with an average of 3-4 minutes, I'm certain that I would have no problem healing fights on my priest, even without a shadow priest available.
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Postby kensanity » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:06 pm

sorry for the double post but this is in regards to the person who is getting the TEARS from their guild mates.

In my guild, we are mostly only geared in t4/badge/t5 gear. and that is probably only like 7 of us. there are probably 10-13 of us that have been dedicated to learning the mobs pats and bosses for the ZA run and we've progressed quite far into getting three chests with such mediocre dps.

Many of our guild mates want to get in the run not for the bear mount in particular but jsut to get pieces of gear from chests or whatever. Even to this extent, I say no.

Like is stated everywhere, ZA is not the next step from karazhan. And well, quite frankly lots of people who play this game need to know that and need to take steps to properly itemize their equipment. That means farming badges and enchants and just runnin higher level content.

What i do to quell all this QQ action is, after thetimer is out of reach, I invite guildmates with poor gear but interest in ZA to take attempts on certain bosses or whatnot. Its good experience regardless cuz at least they learn the pulls and the boss fights. However, during the wipes, there is a great opportunity to explain why bringing certain players just doesn't work. for instance, a rogue with 200 hit, does not have enough hit for ZA, check his dps! I told a rogue i had to come back when he had 250 hit and on the next run he went from 600 dps to 1.1k dps (same group makeup).

I think that is an example of a minute change (buy a couple pieces of badge loot mr rogue!) that has a drastic impact on a player's ability to contribute in a run.

idk. I just feel it is extremely essential to keep up all aspects of the game: a good tank helps dps because it doesn't cap them and alleviates the extent of mana that healers must use - a good healer helps tanks by keeping them up consistently and allowing dps the freedom to concentrate on only dps - good dps helps tanks by various interrupts or abilities to negate incoming damage and helps healers by shortening the lengths of the boss encounters. Its very transitive.
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Postby Diocaska » Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:46 am

Diocaska wrote:We actually tried a new way on dragonhawk last night.

We kill the hatchers everytime they pop up. Not a single dragonhawk.

Push boss to 35% right after a bomb phase, and everyone stands in the center.

Pop figurine of the colossus, pop trinkets, avenging wrath, concecrate.

Blah Blah Blah


Yeah quoting my own post.

After trying this a couple of times, its too unreliable to consistantly pull off. Thus I recommend just doing one side, aoe. Then pop the boss to 35%, blow trinkets, AW, and Concecrate to pick them up. Try push the boss over AFTER he's gone through a bomb phase.
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