Zul'aman - Hitting a bear

Nalorakk, Akil'zon, Jan'alai, Halazzi, Malacrass, Zul'jin

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Zul'aman - Hitting a bear

Postby 2ndNin » Wed May 28, 2008 3:04 pm

http://wowwebstats.com/covs1l3ncum1g

Thats the WWS for the run, 1 wipe on the bear (no idea why, suddenly tanks die), and one of our mages went down during the window hop, and pretty much stayed dead for the long pulls to the Lynx boss room, 3:14 to clear after the timer stopped.

Does it look possible to do with this group, or do we need to get the 5th dps beyond 1K dps? (probably a shammy if we do).

Any thoughts?
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Postby Lookit » Wed May 28, 2008 4:41 pm

Sure it's possible.

Don't wipe on the bear. Don't lose an AOE dps right before the AOE trash on Lynx. And Soothe one of the bears in the first 2-bear pull of Nalorakk's trash so the raid can sneak by.

There's your 3:14 right there :)
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Postby fuzzygeek » Wed May 28, 2008 4:51 pm

Window hop?
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Postby Seloei » Wed May 28, 2008 11:49 pm

Window hop is a trick used to get past the walking patrol by jumping through the hut on the far left corner, double hop through it and you avoid the walking patroll and the "hidden" lynxes with the 2 handlers.
Altho, there is an alternate and not so difficult way. Soothe beast the big lynx on the right hand side, hug the "wall" and run up the hill and kill the 2 handlers and hidden lynxes. Much simpler than trying to get the jump on the platform down and almost the same travel time.

As for the bear. As long as you make no mistakes at all and noone dies/no wipes it is very much possible to get it with the dps you bring. Just you can't stop to drink, can't stop to loot, can't stop to res and need to chain pull as much as you can while using any means to get more speed in.

gl :)
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Postby Ryuusuke » Thu May 29, 2008 4:50 am

The wipe is pretty much everything that ruined your 4th chest...
every wipe costs about 3-4 minutes backing everybody up and reg again...

we wiped on 1st boss to the left yesterday and only had ~3:30 minutes left on the timer (whereas it is abut 6-7 minutes usualy)
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Re: Zul'aman - Hitting a bear

Postby jere » Thu May 29, 2008 6:06 am

2ndNin wrote:http://wowwebstats.com/covs1l3ncum1g

Thats the WWS for the run, 1 wipe on the bear (no idea why, suddenly tanks die), and one of our mages went down during the window hop, and pretty much stayed dead for the long pulls to the Lynx boss room, 3:14 to clear after the timer stopped.

Does it look possible to do with this group, or do we need to get the 5th dps beyond 1K dps? (probably a shammy if we do).

Any thoughts?


Looking through your log the reason you died:

It looks like from the log that you were supposed to tank the bear phase, while the druid tanked the humanoid phase. Here is how it went down:

Humanoid:
1. You got aggro off the bat.
2. You got Mangled
3. Druid taunts boss
4. Druid gets Mangled

Bear:
1. You taunt
2. You pop Avenging Wrath
3. You still have mangle from before
4. You get lacerate flesh and rend flesh which do 100% more damage since you still have Mangle from before.
5. DoT's kill you too quickly.

I think you probably should have used Divine Shield once the druid taunted the boss off of you to remove Mangle. That would have kept your damage down and you probably would have survived.
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Postby 2ndNin » Thu May 29, 2008 10:35 am

Ok, that might explain it, originally I was tanking the troll, but our bear said better if he did, so we swapped, obviously I missed that I was mangled :( drat. Normally a single mangle is fine our healers don't mind and I don't get dead that fast :(.
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Postby Ashmadai » Thu May 29, 2008 11:09 am

I've never actually tanked the bear aspect of Nalorakk, but I would think due to his DOTs in bear and faster hitting in troll, it's more optimal to have the Paladin tank him in troll and the druid do it in Bear. That's how I do it, and we haven't had a death against that guy yet.
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Postby 2ndNin » Thu May 29, 2008 11:20 am

My bear prefers that I tank the bear, as the point for a paladin taunt working is much more defined (after the first swing), the troll form can "resist" (aka just damn well not work for no reason and fail to work for the rest of that phase for no apparent reason) even after the first swing for a small period.

So I end up tanking the bear with my threat suffering but as long as the dps don't pull threat doesn't matter.

Thing is its only this boss that seems to cause problems :D and that includes one of our healers dying on the lynx and getting combat ressed by the tank :D, was kindof amusing telling the dps to stop during a fight about pushing fast :D
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Postby jere » Thu May 29, 2008 11:24 am

2ndNin wrote:Ok, that might explain it, originally I was tanking the troll, but our bear said better if he did, so we swapped, obviously I missed that I was mangled :( drat. Normally a single mangle is fine our healers don't mind and I don't get dead that fast :(.


Well, for perspective, I think rend flesh normally does around 2000-2500 dmg and and lacerate does 1000-1500 dmg (off the top of my head).

If you have mangle up with those bleeds, then they do double damage and you start ticking for 6000-7000 dmg total in bleeds + the bear's melee dmg. That isn't exactly easy to heal through for extended periods and if the bear happens to get a parry haste at around the same time both bleeds tick, followed by a silence, then things can get ugly fast (shoot just the silence without a parry would be nasty in that situation).
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu May 29, 2008 11:37 am

jere wrote:
2ndNin wrote:Ok, that might explain it, originally I was tanking the troll, but our bear said better if he did, so we swapped, obviously I missed that I was mangled :( drat. Normally a single mangle is fine our healers don't mind and I don't get dead that fast :(.


Well, for perspective, I think rend flesh normally does around 2000-2500 dmg and and lacerate does 1000-1500 dmg (off the top of my head).

If you have mangle up with those bleeds, then they do double damage and you start ticking for 6000-7000 dmg total in bleeds + the bear's melee dmg. That isn't exactly easy to heal through for extended periods and if the bear happens to get a parry haste at around the same time both bleeds tick, followed by a silence, then things can get ugly fast (shoot just the silence without a parry would be nasty in that situation).
Nalorakk and Halazzi don't parrygib. That omgwtfpwned feeling they give sometimes is just they being themselves.
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu May 29, 2008 11:40 am

2ndNin wrote:My bear prefers that I tank the bear, as the point for a paladin taunt working is much more defined (after the first swing), the troll form can "resist" (aka just damn well not work for no reason and fail to work for the rest of that phase for no apparent reason) even after the first swing for a small period.

So I end up tanking the bear with my threat suffering but as long as the dps don't pull threat doesn't matter.

Thing is its only this boss that seems to cause problems :D and that includes one of our healers dying on the lynx and getting combat ressed by the tank :D, was kindof amusing telling the dps to stop during a fight about pushing fast :D


That can happen in either form. I tanked the human last week and I taunted twice and nothing happened. No mention of it in the combat log at all, yet it went on CD.
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Postby jere » Thu May 29, 2008 11:44 am

Snake-Aes wrote:
jere wrote:
2ndNin wrote:Ok, that might explain it, originally I was tanking the troll, but our bear said better if he did, so we swapped, obviously I missed that I was mangled :( drat. Normally a single mangle is fine our healers don't mind and I don't get dead that fast :(.


Well, for perspective, I think rend flesh normally does around 2000-2500 dmg and and lacerate does 1000-1500 dmg (off the top of my head).

If you have mangle up with those bleeds, then they do double damage and you start ticking for 6000-7000 dmg total in bleeds + the bear's melee dmg. That isn't exactly easy to heal through for extended periods and if the bear happens to get a parry haste at around the same time both bleeds tick, followed by a silence, then things can get ugly fast (shoot just the silence without a parry would be nasty in that situation).
Nalorakk and Halazzi don't parrygib. That omgwtfpwned feeling they give sometimes is just they being themselves.


They don't crush, but they do parry. You can even look at the WWS report supplied to find out that:

21:06'31.718 Steak's Bite parried by Nalorakk
21:06'40.390 Elyria's Swing parried by Nalorakk
21:06'43.656 Elyria's Swing parried by Nalorakk
21:06'44.109 Realscum's Maul parried by Nalorakk
21:06'49.359 Elyria's Swing parried by Nalorakk
21:06'54.031 Realscum's Mangle (Bear) parried by Nalorakk
21:06'56.265 Frostbite's Swing parried by Nalorakk
21:06'57.296 Frostbite's Claw parried by Nalorakk
21:07'00.093 Frostbite's Claw parried by Nalorakk
21:07'00.203 Frostbite's Swing parried by Nalorakk
21:07'01.234 Frostbite's Swing parried by Nalorakk
21:07'01.875 Realscum's Maul parried by Nalorakk
21:07'02.562 Frostbite's Claw parried by Nalorakk
21:07'08.234 Steak's Claw parried by Nalorakk
21:07'09.375 Steak's Claw parried by Nalorakk
21:07'09.640 Elyria's Swing parried by Nalorakk
21:07'10.234 Steak's Swing heals Nalorakk for 0
21:07'28.140 Nalorakk's Swing parried by Elyria
21:07'36.031 Nalorakk's Swing parried by Elyria
21:07'36.046 Nalorakk's Swing parried by Elyria
21:07'36.343 Elyria's Swing parried by Nalorakk


You might want to check your sources :wink:
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu May 29, 2008 11:47 am

jere wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:
jere wrote:
2ndNin wrote:Ok, that might explain it, originally I was tanking the troll, but our bear said better if he did, so we swapped, obviously I missed that I was mangled :( drat. Normally a single mangle is fine our healers don't mind and I don't get dead that fast :(.


Well, for perspective, I think rend flesh normally does around 2000-2500 dmg and and lacerate does 1000-1500 dmg (off the top of my head).

If you have mangle up with those bleeds, then they do double damage and you start ticking for 6000-7000 dmg total in bleeds + the bear's melee dmg. That isn't exactly easy to heal through for extended periods and if the bear happens to get a parry haste at around the same time both bleeds tick, followed by a silence, then things can get ugly fast (shoot just the silence without a parry would be nasty in that situation).
Nalorakk and Halazzi don't parrygib. That omgwtfpwned feeling they give sometimes is just they being themselves.


They don't crush, but they do parry. You can even look at the WWS report supplied to find out that:

21:06'31.718 Steak's Bite parried by Nalorakk
21:06'40.390 Elyria's Swing parried by Nalorakk
21:06'43.656 Elyria's Swing parried by Nalorakk
21:06'44.109 Realscum's Maul parried by Nalorakk
21:06'49.359 Elyria's Swing parried by Nalorakk
21:06'54.031 Realscum's Mangle (Bear) parried by Nalorakk
21:06'56.265 Frostbite's Swing parried by Nalorakk
21:06'57.296 Frostbite's Claw parried by Nalorakk
21:07'00.093 Frostbite's Claw parried by Nalorakk
21:07'00.203 Frostbite's Swing parried by Nalorakk
21:07'01.234 Frostbite's Swing parried by Nalorakk
21:07'01.875 Realscum's Maul parried by Nalorakk
21:07'02.562 Frostbite's Claw parried by Nalorakk
21:07'08.234 Steak's Claw parried by Nalorakk
21:07'09.375 Steak's Claw parried by Nalorakk
21:07'09.640 Elyria's Swing parried by Nalorakk
21:07'10.234 Steak's Swing heals Nalorakk for 0
21:07'28.140 Nalorakk's Swing parried by Elyria
21:07'36.031 Nalorakk's Swing parried by Elyria
21:07'36.046 Nalorakk's Swing parried by Elyria
21:07'36.343 Elyria's Swing parried by Nalorakk


You might want to check your sources :wink:
Parrygib != parrying. Sharaz also parries btu she doesn't counterattack with it. It's in one of the late 2.3 patch notes, I think. Halazzi and Nalorakk don't parrygib.
Last edited by Snake-Aes on Thu May 29, 2008 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu May 29, 2008 11:53 am

Mother was mentioned specifically by a blue, I don't think it ever made any patch notes. Neither Nalorakk nor Halazzi are mentioned in any 2.3 or 2.4 set of notes on the wow site.

I've never heard of them not receiving parry haste.
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