Pull right before Nalorakk

Nalorakk, Akil'zon, Jan'alai, Halazzi, Malacrass, Zul'jin

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Pull right before Nalorakk

Postby laslord » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:48 am

Last night our guild attempted Zul'Aman, we handled all the trash mobs fine up until the pull right before Nalorakk.

The pull is 2 bears in center, a troll on each side. We had a mage sheep the right one, and a hunter trap the left one. We had two paladin tanks (mistake?) and the initial pull was very strange.

I had the other tank pull them by getting within range, and then we both Judged Righteousness at the same time on our respective bear. We wiped attempting this at least 3-4 times as this is what would happen...

Both bears would go to one person even if we both did 500-600 holy dmg to our targeted bear. Once both bears were on one person it was asking for death. They hit hard, and a paladin's taunt would ensure certain death if attempted as it's a multi-mob taunt.

So I tried popping my wings just before judging and that helped a bit as we got the bears separated but then when the riders dismount I died from a huge influx of dmg, 1.2k, 1.2k, then a 5k hit (not a crit, not a crush).

It also didn't help that the hunter's trap was letting loose because he wasn't spec'd right.

My question, Is this pull supposed to be this tough? I'm thinking it would be easier with a druid/paladin warrior/paladin tank combo at minimum right (for more dmg mitigation)?

I didn't actually try, but when the rider and bear dismount are they stunnable with Hammer of Justice? It seems the bear hits harder when the rider dismounts.

Second, instead of having a hunter and a mage, is it better to have two mages, especially for the next fight (waves of non-elite eagles).

I don't believe the healers are in question, they are awesome healers and just a huge amount of dmg all at once killed me, but I'm not worried about that. More curious about how people typically engage this fight, and possibly what group make up is used for tanks and CC.

Thanks in advance! fyi, my armory is up to date, except I use Crystalforged Sword with +40 spell dmg, total spell dmg when buffed is 405.
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Postby Thanehand » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:11 am

I would not reccomend going with 2 prot pallys, simple becasue is only a 10 man, and there are more advantages to taking another class..

That said, its perfectly doable with 2 pallys.

How did the other pally pull? AS? Thats going to cause mucho problems right there, so I would rule that out first.
Assuming he didn't and only Body-pulled/Judged. You shouldn't have that much problem judgeing the other one onto you then...
You can try taunting, grabbing aggro on both and having him judge the other back to him then.. that should put you both at the same aggro level on both before he judges. Make sure you then spilt the 2 Bear Riders up, either side of the platform so you're not both getting Shout-ed

When the rider dismounts, stun the bear immediately, yes. Keep it in the consc and try to get the rider down asap, then deal with the bear.

As to group setup, I normally try to run with a balanced group:

2 Tanks (usually 1 Pally, 1 Warrior or Feral)
3 Healers (Pally, Priest, Druid or Shammy)
1 Mage
1 Warlock
1 Hunter
1 Rogue
1 other

Ofc, you don't have to take anywhere near that setup, and some fights favour different setups to others. (Eagle trash = more AOE, Phoenix = More CC for example)

Regarding your gear: Since the mobs/1st boss don't crush, I'd recommend swapping the Fig of the Colloussus for a Stm trinket, and look at spending some Badges on items that increase Stamina (esp) and Dodge (less so), in favour of some of the Shield Block items you have such as the belt and cloak. Imo more stam is better in ZA than more SB
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Postby laslord » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:40 am

I meant to ask about Dodge but forgot. By switching to Boots of Elusion and using the Cenarion Expedition (Strength of the Untamed) I can get my dodge near 20% I believe, unfortunately that's the best I can do right now. I'm going to try and get the Commendation of Kael'thas this weekend.

I don't have any massive +40 to 50 stam trinkets yet (working on getting the Furies deck). I agree it would help immensely, and we didn't have the warlock have the imp out, so that's even more stam. Fully raid buffed with 3 stam buffs (fort, kings, imp) I have > 17k health. I've got 1/4 of the badges for Inscribed Legplates of the Aldor, but still working on that.

As for the first pull, the other paladin just walks within aggro range, and when they get near us we both judge our respective bear. It was just strange how the first 3-4 pulls began so badly, but I think we've got that part down, just as long as we don't taunt *after* one of us has some base about of threat on both bears.

I'm thinking I should keep on Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch and use it right when the rider dismounts. As for the other trinket, I could switch to Adamantine Figurine for the increased Armour.
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Postby Elvidnir » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:19 am

Hopefully your other tank has a large HP pool, or a high amount of armor.

The bleeds from the boss's bearform really suck, I prefer a druid to tank that phase due to the massive damage reduction from armor.
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Postby ehly » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:01 am

That pull right before the bear boss is one of the gear/skill check pulls. Though two prot pallies should do it fine if you are both judgmenting like that. You prob don't want to use AS for that pull at all.

Make sure to keep them seperated and away from you CC'd mobs. We have one tank pull left and the other pull right. Leaves the sheep in the middle, and the hunter gets a lot of room to work with on 4th.

Prob are using consecration, but make sure to have it going at about about the health level of the bear/rider split. You will have no trouble keeping the bear there. I just tab to the bear and HoJ it, then go back to the troll. The HoJ usually keeps the bear out of action for plenty of time.

Def have which ever pally has the most hp, and best gear on the bear part of the boss. I have always been the bear tank on our runs, a prot pally has no trouble taking the damage. The big thing to be careful of is the transition. You can't RD too early as for the first seconds he really doesn't have a target, and will burn your RD. I watch the timer, hit HS just before the change. Then let him change shapes and hit the other tank once. Then taunt him over. Never had a rought change since started doing that.
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Postby laslord » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:30 am

Thanks for all the suggestions, and advice. We'll give it another try sometime in the near future.

I think the key, at least for me, is to increase my dodge a bit, be aware of when the rider dismounts and HoJ the bear, and modify my gear set just a bit to increase Stamina while not necessarily being uncrushable, but staying uncrittable with 100% total avoidance.

I did read the thread about people having issues with taunts on the transitions of this Bear boss. It will be something that might take a couple wipes to get right. I will ensure I get Deadly Boss Mods for the fight, as I haven't had any pressing reasons to get it yet. Kara seems to be a cake walk compared to the coordination that must take place to get through these other raids.
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Postby Elvidnir » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:43 am

Kara really is a cakewalk compared to some of the fights in ZA. I think because ZA is a much smaller instance, they had to ramp up the difficulty.

Bear boss took us 7-8 resets over 2 nights to finally get down. The trick is to tell your healers to heal nobody but the tank taking the hits, have a healer call out who to heal, and when silence hits. It helps a lot if your bear form tank has avoidance trinkets to use for the silences to minimize incoming hits. DPS will have to fend for themselves, that's what first aid and consumables are for. :P

During the bear phase, the tank has to be kept above 90% for the duration, so he/she doesn't get gibbed during the silence. Although, when we did it this week it seemed like the silence was only half of what it usually is.

Our problem was we had a healer that was spot-healing the dps, so the bear form tank wasn't consistently above 90%. We would always have to reset when the tank died during silence.
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Postby Frickit » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:24 pm

the pull before nalorak can be just as hard as the boss fight at first.

you should really have two mages and a hunter or two as well.

Pull with hunter's misdirect and each tank grab their single target to their respective sides (they crisscross) just use a judgement. AoE away from sheeps.

Sheep the trolls! and pull with misdirect and its a piece of cake.
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Postby jere » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:32 pm

We typically:

T1 B1 B2 T2

I take B1
OT takes B2
Mage sheeps either T1 or T2 (whichever is a medicine man if there is one)
Warlock fears the other (he won't aggro Norolakk) or hunter traps it, etc.

When B1 splits, I tab to the bear, judge it and stun it or the troll, and then finish off the troll. Once the troll goes down, we kill my bear. I then run over to the OT and get ready for the split there. I pick up the bear. We kill the troll, then the bear, then the fear/trap/etc., and then the sheep.
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Postby sbeacher » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:58 pm

That's weird you die after they dismount because that's usually the point where I sigh in relief (as long as the bear doesn't immediately aggro on something, but as was pointed out just stun it immedately. By the time it comes out it will be stuck to you)

Whoever's bear dies first should go tank whichever mob is trapped or seduced as those are both very unreliable forms of cc. Sheeped mobs can be left alone till last as long as the mage(s) are good.

We did this last night without a mage (almost got three chests, killed lynx about 2 minutes too late)

Also make sure you are tanking the two bears FAR away from each other otherwise the debuffs will stack.
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Postby Tiandelin » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:40 am

The riders enrage when they dismount, and the bears do a "crush armor" attack that reduces your armor by 10k. This can hurt a lot, hence why it's a good idea to HoJ the bear immediately. Six seconds should be long enough for the rider to die.

I always have everyone burn down my bear rider first, then I pick up the bear from the offtank when its rider dismounts.
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Postby Minn » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:52 pm

The Amani Bears also have a Frenzy (+100% atk speed) that can be dispelled by tranq shot if your Hunter is on the ball. I'd recommend a MD to one paladin, with the other standing ready to pick the other rider off (JoR) before the group collides with your tank.
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Postby Tyaera » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:55 pm

Tiandelin wrote:The riders enrage when they dismount, and the bears do a "crush armor" attack that reduces your armor by 10k. This can hurt a lot, hence why it's a good idea to HoJ the bear immediately. Six seconds should be long enough for the rider to die.

I always have everyone burn down my bear rider first, then I pick up the bear from the offtank when its rider dismounts.

the crush appears to be resistable, blockable, dodgeable, parryable, and missable.

I tanked the entire of Nalorakk's trash, and never once got the debuff. Was in my trash set,about 1% off uncrushable.
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Postby Makaijin » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:35 pm

Are the paladins (pre)casting Holy Shield? Because if one of you pulled with HS up, the mobs will make a beeline and melee as soon as they get in range. Each HS block alone is around 500 threat already. So the one charging in with Holy Shield up is going to cause problems.

Ideally in this situation, both of you should run in body pulling with only SoR (or SoB) up, as as soon as you have judged, one paladin should move left and other move right, or whatever direction your raid have decided. Only, and only when you are sure each paladin have aggro on their assigned mobs should you even cast holy shield.
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Postby Seloei » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:37 am

if you have 2 palas, you can not use holy shield at all, on pulls where you need to split agro. It is almost impossible to pull agro off another paladin without righteous defense. Like the above one posted, use a sob or sor to get intital agro, then move to your spot and then consecrate (hs up before you judge also). As soon as you are at the tanking spot, dps burns him down and stun the bear mount.
After that either pick up the loose trash or get ready to stun or tank his bear (then chuck a frisbee when the rider is nearing 25% (dismounts then))

That pull is the worst trash in the whole instance, if you can down that one you should be able to get the boss easy :)
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