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Akil'Zon Kicking my butt

Nalorakk, Akil'zon, Jan'alai, Halazzi, Malacrass, Zul'jin

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Re: Akil'Zon Kicking my butt

Postby amadiss » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:59 pm

Vic wrote:After a few times into ZA i've come to realize Akil'Zon is a real pain and i believe that the healers may feel they have a lot of pressure on them when it comes to healing me in this fight. During the fight it all seems to go well, the way we kill him is we have someone watching a timer and calls when to collapse, when we collapse every raid member falls to the tanks position which is usually where Akil'Zon stands before you engage him. but when we do that things get extremely crazy, it feels i'm taking an insane amount of dmg and i get the idea that the healers panic, a lightwell actually helped me alot at times, i hit that every time we collapse. Sometimes i think it is because the healers stop healing when we call it out so they can run to me and start healing, that i seem to have the trouble. I'm not so poorly geared, My Armory may be off a bit, but anyone got any comments? is it me just being paranoid? would the three points in the ret tree to reduce chance spells will hit me help me out here?

Armory Link!



I don't see how is that the last 2 pages of this thread are helping to solve the issues presented on the original post.
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Postby Dorvan » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:42 pm

Blaen99 wrote:Great. Disprove my theory then.

(Edit) For clarification, we use the "Everyone stack up on the fat-ass tree druid with the condom as his icon" strat that's about ~25 yards away from the boss and the tank.


I didn't say your theory was wrong, I just don't know at this point and am intrigued. At this point it'd be helpful to hear how other folks have done it and what results they've, or if you'd like to do some test runs to establish a pattern that'd work too.
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Postby Comma » Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:04 pm

Probably post a new thread, and move this discussion there. Since whether the tank does take storm at times or not, its not the key issue the orginal poster of this thread had.
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Postby Morganim » Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:50 pm

Dorvan wrote:
Blaen99 wrote:Great. Disprove my theory then.

(Edit) For clarification, we use the "Everyone stack up on the fat-ass tree druid with the condom as his icon" strat that's about ~25 yards away from the boss and the tank.


I didn't say your theory was wrong, I just don't know at this point and am intrigued. At this point it'd be helpful to hear how other folks have done it and what results they've, or if you'd like to do some test runs to establish a pattern that'd work too.


Our strat when im tanking is pretty simple.
I run in and AS, Judge bla bla bla
Turn him so taht his back is facing the ramp you come up, this is just easy mode for rogues and im so used to doing it for cleave bosses.

Range Dps/Healers spread out in an arc infront of the stairs you come up from, so there behind him to.

When a storm is called. i think im yet to see it on melee/tank we just all run to the person and hide there for a few seconds and then with 2 secs left on storm i AS and run back in.

Also i DONT give locks/mages for this fight as we have ours throw a dot or spell at the birds every now and then just to thin there numbers

From my experience he hits pretty weakly, i have to pot. And healing with the birds being thinned is pretty light.
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Postby Blaen99 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:28 pm

Dorvan wrote:
Blaen99 wrote:Great. Disprove my theory then.

(Edit) For clarification, we use the "Everyone stack up on the fat-ass tree druid with the condom as his icon" strat that's about ~25 yards away from the boss and the tank.


I didn't say your theory was wrong, I just don't know at this point and am intrigued. At this point it'd be helpful to hear how other folks have done it and what results they've, or if you'd like to do some test runs to establish a pattern that'd work too.


I don't really need to run it, I can already tell you how he works to something like 95% certainty.

As you mentioned, 1 in 50 trllion or w/e - only difference is we group up at ranged instead of on the tank.
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Postby Enkal » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:53 am

We tried the piling on tank strategy but out healers couldnt keep the squishies up from chain lightning. We now just have everyone spread out in a circle close to the inner square platform and we all run to the person who gets hit.

Problem is that ZA really requires good geared players and since there's no attunement ppl with pre kara gear think they can go there. :/
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Postby YoYoMa » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:02 am

to the OP, somebody else mentioned it too but we wait till 7 sec before the "possible" storm start time and collapse onto the MT at that point. A majority of the time this puts everybody in range right as he does the storm and if that happens then healing is light. Sometimes though he will do his static charge right as you come in or worse, his timer is long in that cycle and he gets off 2 static charges before he does his storm. Just have healers ready plus pots/healthstones just in case.

That is probably the most healing intensive part of the fight though is when you collapse and get hit by static charges at the same time (even worse if you have birds up hitting people). So you do need quick healers for this one.

Also, I've been the storm target while MTing. But it doesn't matter from a mechanics perspective so I don't know why anybody cares. I just come down and resume tanking, no loss in threat.
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Postby Sabindeus » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:22 am

Blaen99 wrote:
I don't really need to run it, I can already tell you how he works to something like 95% certainty.

As you mentioned, 1 in 50 trllion or w/e - only difference is we group up at ranged instead of on the tank.


I'd say where you group up is a significant difference for the purposes of reverse engineering the ability mechanics.

My group uses the group up on the tank strat, and I have never gotten Stormed. However, I don't have any reason to believe that storming the tank is impossible.

Blaen I think you are being shortsighted here. The concept of "It's never happened to me or these 57 other people I've talked to" is pretty lame. No matter how many people you have seen never get stormed, it's possible that someone else has talked to the same number of people who have had it happen 20% of the time, making the statistics on your even distribution of storm targets amongst a 10 man raid scenario work out. And of course this goes to show that in this case statistics are obviously not what we should be looking at. :p
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Postby Blaen99 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:07 am

Sabindeus wrote:
Blaen99 wrote:
I don't really need to run it, I can already tell you how he works to something like 95% certainty.

As you mentioned, 1 in 50 trllion or w/e - only difference is we group up at ranged instead of on the tank.


I'd say where you group up is a significant difference for the purposes of reverse engineering the ability mechanics.

My group uses the group up on the tank strat, and I have never gotten Stormed. However, I don't have any reason to believe that storming the tank is impossible.

Blaen I think you are being shortsighted here. The concept of "It's never happened to me or these 57 other people I've talked to" is pretty lame. No matter how many people you have seen never get stormed, it's possible that someone else has talked to the same number of people who have had it happen 20% of the time, making the statistics on your even distribution of storm targets amongst a 10 man raid scenario work out. And of course this goes to show that in this case statistics are obviously not what we should be looking at. :p


I probably am b eing shortsighted, Sabin.

There's really only two significant possibilities however that I see of his ability targetting.

#1: Say the furthest or X furthest people from him have a chance to be stormed
#2: Anyone at > X distance has a chance to be stormed.
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Postby YoYoMa » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:15 am

#1: Say the furthest or X furthest people from him have a chance to be stormed
#2: Anyone at > X distance has a chance to be stormed.

or #3, it's random.

As I said before, who cares anyway. Who is being stormed doesn't affect the fight in any way shape or form.
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Postby Blaen99 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:36 am

YoYoMa wrote:
#1: Say the furthest or X furthest people from him have a chance to be stormed
#2: Anyone at > X distance has a chance to be stormed.

or #3, it's random.

As I said before, who cares anyway. Who is being stormed doesn't affect the fight in any way shape or form.


It actually does quite significantly.

If #1 is true, then storms can be manipulated. If #2 is true, storms can be manipulated.

#3 has more or less been proven to be false at this point.

If #1 is true, however, storms are retardedly easy to manipulate.
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Postby YoYoMa » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:58 am

#3 has more or less been proven to be false at this point.

By what? Your experience on your runs? I like how you state things to be fact when others are saying they have different experiences in the fight.

For our group, we've had the MT stormed on more than one occassion. Maybe for your group you've had different experiences. I'm not going to argue with you because as I stated, I could care less since what we do works for us. But please don't state things as facts when there is contradictory evidence from others.

And it does have little significance from the standpoint of this thread. Regardless of who gets the storm, when you have everybody clumped up on that person (MT or wherever) and he casts the static charge, healing becomes very intensive. Couple that with birds and you've got some heafy raid damage going on for the healers to compensate for. Meanwhile the MT is still getting hit from the boss.
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Postby Stylaan » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:10 am

1 or 2 have not been true for us at least.

We've had people accidentally get locked outside the gate yet not be the target of the first storm but be targeted for subsequent storms.

We've also always clumped up on Akil'zon about 5 seconds before, MT in front of him, everyone else behind him and because it's a cooldown-based ability he hasn't consistently used it in conjunction with the timer and we've eaten 3-4 static charges before he's cast it.
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Postby Vic » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:03 pm

YoYoMa wrote:to the OP, somebody else mentioned it too but we wait till 7 sec before the "possible" storm start time and collapse onto the MT at that point. A majority of the time this puts everybody in range right as he does the storm and if that happens then healing is light. Sometimes though he will do his static charge right as you come in or worse, his timer is long in that cycle and he gets off 2 static charges before he does his storm. Just have healers ready plus pots/healthstones just in case.

That is probably the most healing intensive part of the fight though is when you collapse and get hit by static charges at the same time (even worse if you have birds up hitting people). So you do need quick healers for this one.

Also, I've been the storm target while MTing. But it doesn't matter from a mechanics perspective so I don't know why anybody cares. I just come down and resume tanking, no loss in threat.


I don't run timers in za, i usually leave that to one of the other raid leaders. At times it feels like the storm doesn't come up when it's expected is this a cooldown ability like Tidewalker's summoning of the murlocs? it's not always going to come up when expected it's just when the cooldown is up (i run a timer for -that- fight) Or is it - it's going to pop at a certain 'time'? We have like 2-3 guys constantly talking about their timers during the fight and they all try to cut it real close down to the last second to collapse, then we all fall to Me (other raid leader puts a sexy symbol over me) and a shaman chain heals and a priest is group healing as well. I would like to try that other idea to have all but me collapse to a point behind the boss seeing how the storm is quite big.

Armory changed already sorry =( having fun for a few days with BGs, But My Tank set consists of T4/T5/Heroic Badge Gear/Vengeance Trinket/Pocketwatch/S2 Arena Mace/Shield Off Nightbane/Belt of the guardian n so on.


It's just to -me- it seems like i could do better i just can't figure out what i may be doing wrong, or how to improve, was curious if those 3 pts in the ret tree to reduce chance spells will hit me will help at all.
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Postby Stylaan » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:04 pm

Vic wrote:
YoYoMa wrote:to the OP, somebody else mentioned it too but we wait till 7 sec before the "possible" storm start time and collapse onto the MT at that point. A majority of the time this puts everybody in range right as he does the storm and if that happens then healing is light. Sometimes though he will do his static charge right as you come in or worse, his timer is long in that cycle and he gets off 2 static charges before he does his storm. Just have healers ready plus pots/healthstones just in case.

That is probably the most healing intensive part of the fight though is when you collapse and get hit by static charges at the same time (even worse if you have birds up hitting people). So you do need quick healers for this one.

Also, I've been the storm target while MTing. But it doesn't matter from a mechanics perspective so I don't know why anybody cares. I just come down and resume tanking, no loss in threat.


I don't run timers in za, i usually leave that to one of the other raid leaders. At times it feels like the storm doesn't come up when it's expected is this a cooldown ability like Tidewalker's summoning of the murlocs? it's not always going to come up when expected it's just when the cooldown is up (i run a timer for -that- fight) Or is it - it's going to pop at a certain 'time'? We have like 2-3 guys constantly talking about their timers during the fight and they all try to cut it real close down to the last second to collapse, then we all fall to Me (other raid leader puts a sexy symbol over me) and a shaman chain heals and a priest is group healing as well. I would like to try that other idea to have all but me collapse to a point behind the boss seeing how the storm is quite big.

Armory changed already sorry =( having fun for a few days with BGs, But My Tank set consists of T4/T5/Heroic Badge Gear/Vengeance Trinket/Pocketwatch/S2 Arena Mace/Shield Off Nightbane/Belt of the guardian n so on.


It's just to -me- it seems like i could do better i just can't figure out what i may be doing wrong, or how to improve, was curious if those 3 pts in the ret tree to reduce chance spells will hit me will help at all.


It's a cooldown ability.
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