Group has major issues in ZA

Nalorakk, Akil'zon, Jan'alai, Halazzi, Malacrass, Zul'jin

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Group has major issues in ZA

Postby TheHonage » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:18 pm

Hello all! Its been forever since I've posted, but not I've replaced my former hacked tankadin with a new 15,767 hp tankadin. My guild has not really paid too much attention to ZA in the past, but we have begun some this week testing our limits (most weeks we did first 2 bosses than called it quits). We hit timer one and missed timer 2 (eagle for us) by 30 seconds (2 minute break after bear boss was a mistake). We then killed Halazzi and killed Jan'ali. We aren't problemless none the less. The trash seems to be taking quite a while to drop and the boss kill times aren't fantastic at ALL. Here is our group makeup:

Prot pally (21.5k hp buffed, yours truely)
Feral druid (21k hp buffed, mediocre dps gear)

Holy Priest (2000ish +healing)
Resto Druid (1850ish +healing, very skilled)
Resto Shaman (1950 +healing, great group healer)

Fury Warrior (kara/badge gear + 4 blues)
Fire Mage (880+damage)
Fire Mage (950+damage, excellently skilled)
Affliction Warlock (1.05k +damage)
Hunter (2200 ap 29 crit -- 1200 no sweat)

Is there anything very wrong with this group set up? Should we really not be able to down Hex Lord? (Note: some dps are a bit retarded at times.) I see people in gear similar to ours claiming (with 2 healers) that they did a 4 timer clear of the whole raid -- our dps' gear may be a bit mediocre - but should it really be so hard?
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Postby Purple » Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:30 am

if your having problems with getting hex particularly..

i think it might be more worth adding what hp some of this dps has. fire mages below 8.5k here fully buffed may become very difficult to heal in the later part of the fight when his bolts are doing alot of damage.

in terms of dps its ok, in other words you should manage if he doesnt heal. if the war is the only 1 interrupting make sure the mages are fully alert if there's a consercrate thats keeping him out of range. make sure the hunter is using his arcane shot at the lifebloom.

its a healing heavy fight yes but dps need to work in conjuction with it. tell any alchys to time mad alchemists at the bolts instead of inbetween. if the spirit bolts are incoming in 6 secs and your not at full health start bandaging, your less use if you're dead. and group up for the shammy's chain heal.

not sure if i answered your question there or if you meant you arnt moving fast enough to reach hex lord. if thats the case then its more about focus. people not drinking the second the leave combat, or dps maybe not being focus'd on one trash taget is usually a good reason why it seems to take a decade for your skull target to die. The group alone i can't find anything wrong with, but unfortunately you can tell so little from just the class and gear, people need to be focus'd to move at a good pace, and the tank needs to be the one setting that pace.

just to add, if you find your drinking too much and slowing the pace down, drop a sheep prehaps. with 21k hp buffed your probably at the same gear level as me and i dont think i've taken a mage in their in about 3-4 weeks and if i do the only thing they sheep is a flame caster on the grps with two. make sure your the one pulling and if need be chug some pots to keep your downtime minimal, however this is more something needed on a speed run rather than a casual.
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Postby TheHonage » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:07 pm

Yeah -- one of our mages is sitting a fair chunk below that -- 7.2k hp. I'm thinking that although it will drop his dps we can throw him in the tank group. But yes, what I meant was that we are taking a long time on trash (3 hrs on dragonhawk, 1.2 on rest).
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Postby Elsie » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:30 pm

Your group's dps probably will never hit the third chest till you get several upgrades. I mean, I'm pretty sure mages can break 1100 spell damage with just badge and crafted gear.

There's nothing inherently wrong with your group make up. You're running, at the moment:
Group 1:
Mage, Mage, Lock, Paladin, Shaman
Group 2:
Druid, druid, warrior, hunter, holy priest

Really, you lack some group synergy. You really want windfury for the warrior, but Wrath of Air is generally going to be better. If healing isn't bad, a Shadow priest instead of holy priest would add some decent healing still, increase your DPS and synergy. That, or an enhancement shaman could twist for melee since hunter/druid want agi totem, warrior/paladin want windfury totem, etc. Three healers makes timed events really hard in the first place.

On the plus side, you have TONS of potential aoe, silence, mind control - just lacking the gear.
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Postby TheHonage » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:39 pm

I'd love the 3rd chest -- but that's not even my problem! My issue is we are taking so long on Dragonhawk trash/having issues on Hex Lord that we aren't even downing him. Dragonhawk is a ridiculously long hold up for us, no idea why. First time we did Lynx we 1 shot him, but even the actual boss fight itself on dragonhawk is taking a LONG time, its stupid.
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Postby Aerfalle » Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:52 pm

The stats of your caster DPS are very low. My warlock on her first Kara run had more than +880 damage from crafted epics. Your other casters aren't much past that. With badge gear you can surely *easily* gear up past 1k damage before you start ZA.

Also, warriors aren't really known for high dps output in half blues.

ZA isn't an easy place, really. Hex Lord is the hardest boss in ZA, especially if you aren't used to the fight and have "retarded at times" DPS. You say you see people who do 4 chest runs with similar gear as yours. With your tank and healer gear, sure, maybe it is similar. But not the gear of your DPS, which is really what's most important. Each of them would need to be doing 1k+ DPS, and ideally more like 1200+ each. Do you happen to know how much they did do?
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Postby TheHonage » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:25 am

It varies a lot. Our hunter can do 1200+ easy. The 950 mage is right around 1k, The 880 mage and 1.05 lock can do 950ish, and the fury warrior (not our usualy one) was doing really low (800-850ish). I mean the big problem is aside from the hunter and 950 mage we really don't have much consistancy. We've blown up some bosses in really, really short times...then the next reset we'll do em a LOT slower. Bird boss is like the best example. We've made like 4 minutes on him (estimate, didn't time, just judgine from time left on clock), and also like 7.5 minutes or something. Its crazy
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Postby Ashmadai » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:10 am

Sounds like your players just need to get a little better if you're having issues. I don't think gear is a huge problem. My ZA I run now gets Bears, albeit with only a few minutes left on the timer, and we do it with:

Prot Pally
Feral Druid

Holy Pally
Holy Priest
Holy Priest

BM Hunter
BM Hunter
BM Hunter
Fury Warrior

Sometimes we have a mage and one less hunter, but nobody is in any T6 gear whatsoever. Three healers does not keep you from getting a bear if everybody is on the ball. We do it without taking any shortcuts really, no waterwalking past that one trash pull, no jumping in huts, etc.
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Re: Group has major issues in ZA

Postby superworm » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:06 pm

TheHonage wrote: I see people in gear similar to ours claiming (with 2 healers) that they did a 4 timer clear of the whole raid -- our dps' gear may be a bit mediocre - but should it really be so hard?

Seriously, with gear similar to yours (2 mages bellow 1k spell damage), I can hardly believe they did 4 chests without any exploits. Maybe its just similar gear but your teammates didn't get full enchants?

My group used to stop at 3 chests in T5/badge gears, and only got 4 chests recently when we were upgrading to T6.
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Postby Seloei » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:46 pm

Proper skill and avoiding pats/trash with chaining everything and anything at every corner can make it happen. If the 2 healers are well enough geared and both the tanks can survive/avoid most of the beating it is possible.

Kara/za/badge group with 3 healers for our first bear. Last few runs we've been running alts through it and still have atleast 4-5 minutes on the clock (2 blue/kara dps)
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