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How to get guild into Gruul's lair or any 25 men

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How to get guild into Gruul's lair or any 25 men

Postby Lauranna-Skullcrusher » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:21 am

I saw the same kind of post in the karazhan section...

Here's my situation:
I am the GM of a guild. We have a good amount of players (135 char and about 75 real account). We currently have 2 groups doing Karazhan. The 1st group is pretty much all geared Kara and still do it mostly for badges or for 1-2 items that rarely drop. Our 2nd group downed Prince for the 1st time 2 weeks ago.

So we have a pretty good amount of players and the average gear is getting pretty good. We are looking to start the 25 men instances but it seems that every week, 1-2 players "go on a break" or just go MIA (missing in action). Because of that, It is very hard to get over 15 players to start doing Gruul's lair and Mag.

Any idea how to get people interested or motivated in doing 25 men instead of just getting geared in Kara and then disapearing?

Thanks
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Postby Zeels » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:27 pm

Here is what we do (and we still need to recruit some healers).

- Have 2-3 mandatory raid days.
- Only recruit ppls who can raid those days
- Use sign up for the raids, those who can't come will have to sign off
- All other raids should come 2nd hand and be optional (thinking kara and za)

Really important imo to have signups, then ppls commit to the raids, and you will know before the raid starts what ppls are coming

75 accounts sounds like a lot.

We currently have 28 ppls with "raiding" status, and usually make the 25-man.
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Postby Lauranna-Skullcrusher » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:06 am

We use Group Calendar for events, but it's not everyone who uses it............................................. yeah we have idiots in the guild.
We are a somewhat casual guild. We raid 3 nights per week but none are required, which might be the issue afterall. I guess when you try to be too nice, the progression takes a hit.

Yes, we have a lot of accounts, some are active and good raiders, but we have some not 70 yet or not geared enough to raid.

I guess if we want to become a "real" raiding guild, we gonna have to do a clean up of the slackers

I think the biggest problem is that we are a French Canadian guild, so it's hard to have a good enough community to do large raid.
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Postby Ariashley » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:15 pm

The guild my main (rogue) is in is a fairly serious raiding guild, but we only raid 3x per week, the least of all the top 15 raiding guilds on my server. We raid the fewest hours. We keep up with guilds that raid 32 hrs a week, while we raid 12. We have a set schedule and attendance requirements. If you don't meet the attendance requirements (which is 75% of the last 60 days raids), you can only bid/roll on something if someone who DOES have the attendance doesn't want it. We never will DE something that someone can use, but people who show up reguarly get things before those who don't.

Required raids are progression raids and only those count toward your attendance requirement. There are often other raids that happen, but those are not required and do not make use of DKP for loot distribution (with the exception of certain items, such as Dragonspine Trophy). We do not kick people out of the guild who don't meet attendance requirements, they are just bottom of the loot distribution tree, and the least likely to be invited to a raid when we have enough people who normally attend. We have only 65 accounts in my guild and raid Black Temple as pretty much our only progression raids at this time, but these rules have been in place since the Naxx and Molten Core days (though I wasn't in the guild then).

As attendance problems develop or if we have to call more than 1 raid in a month due to attendance issues, we recruit people to fill the missing roles.

The new guild my paladin is in is planning to raid Gruul's for the first time on Sunday. I'm pretty sure if the raid is short people, we will be pulling people from the guilds that some people's mains are in to fill the empty spots. If you can't quite get together enough for a full guild raid, consider pulling experienced players that are friends of people in the guild and letting loot go to rolls. While you will ideally want to get full raids of just guild people, you can often prove that your guild can handle that content by downing those bosses with a few ppl not in the guild.

You can't make your existing membership interested in 25-mans. But you can make it possible for those who are interested to do them and recruit people to make up for those who don't.
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Postby dmok » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:23 pm

My guild only really jumped into the 25mans a coupla months ago. We could originally only manage on average 20 people interested in going to 25 mans on any given night, but if we really got everyone together we could scrape out 25. Gruul was an easy kill, but we had that issue of scraping those last 5 together for raids.

Our solution: form an alliance with a smaller guild on your server who are also interested in doing 25mans. We allied with a guild who had 7 active "raid-ready" accounts. Made making our 25 real easy. That alliance lasted maybe 2 months before it fell apart, but as soon as other people on the server started hearing about our progression we starting getting more and more tells asking for ginvites. 2 weeks after the alliance broke up, we had little difficulty filling our 25mans.
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Postby Lauranna-Skullcrusher » Mon May 05, 2008 8:21 am

Thanks for the tips.

I added a rank for the reliable raiders to help with the loot priorities. We tried again last night and were able to pull off 15 people well geared from the guild. A bunch of our best players were not online.

We killed HKM on the 3rd try (had problems with the pull on the other 2 tries)
We killed Gruul on the 3rd try (2nd try went to 15% before the wipe).

I tried forming an alliance last week but went it was time for the raid (last night), 0 members of that guild were online. So we PUGed and were lucky to clear the instance.

That run made us recruit a good tank (war prot) and other people asked me to come back with us next week. It's nice to finally get started in the 25 men, but I don't see myself taking PUGs into SSC/TK
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Postby Ariashley » Mon May 05, 2008 9:04 am

Well no, you wouldn't take PUGs into SSC/TK. But once you are being successful in the beginning 25-man content, it's much easier to attract new members.

Guild my paladin is in has apparently formed an alliance with a larger guild with the same issue you're having. We did Gruul's yesterday. One-shot high king, wiped 3 times on Gruul (2 of those due to really really unlucky shatters). Going back to kill Gruul tonight (a bunch of us had to go to a different raid after the 3rd Gruul wipe). Think DPS was a little sloppy on Gruul also.
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Postby sweeney » Thu May 15, 2008 6:09 am

Congratulations! Just getting the bodies in there to do Gruul's is definately the first step towards consistent 25-man raiding. It tends to gain momentum as you go.

We only have two official raid nights and they're only 3-3.5 hours long; I think February was the first time we could even field 2 karas, much less 25 people. We got VR and Solarian down this week. IMO despite how much the fight has been nerfed, Mag is the real test of whether *everyone* can follow directions. Once you can down him regularly I'd consider starting in on SSC/TK. You immediately see as early as Netherspite the difference between "reliable raiders" and "warm bodies", and getting the warm bodies to put out consistent if mediocre performance while following directions is the biggest obstacle to progression.
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Postby Morpheren » Thu May 15, 2008 7:15 am

A fine line needs to be set in your dedication as a raiding guild. IMO have set raid nights, DKP, and expect the members to be there and have to post on a forum if they wont be.
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Postby Whitehope » Sun May 18, 2008 2:57 am

It's been my experience so far that you have to have more than 25 people geared for progression content to really keep the pace. If for some reason you hit a pothole and get stuck at a certain place, people invariably always go MIA for a week or two until progress has been made or jump ship entirely. Also in my opinion, having a little competition for slots makes people a little more focused with playing their class as efficiently as possible. If you are guaranteed a raid spot because you don't have enough bodies, chances are you may start slacking.

Several of the major guild leaders I've talked to say having 35-40 reliable and properly geared players (accounts and not characters) to pull from is a good number to strive for. Your mileage may vary however, and I'm sure many people will disagree strongly.

At some point the interest will probably take care of itself, especially if people run out of things to grab in kara. The only thing left to do would be to move onto 25 man content. Well, either that or they will just start gearing alts which seems to be a problem in my current guild.
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Postby Lauranna-Skullcrusher » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:59 am

Follow up on our progression.

After 2 weeks of 25 men with pugs, the other french canadian guild on our server (we were the 2 biggest) asked us to do an alliance to do 25 men. We did that alliance for 2 weeks and we ended up merging the 2 guilds, which we did 2 weeks ago.

Since that merge, we have 110 accounts (160 char) and are able to raid 25 men every tuesday, thursday and sunday. In 2 weeks we were able to down: Mag, Hydross, Lurker, Morogrim and VR.

I think the best tip is really to get started with Gruul by pugging the members you are missing. That way you will be seen by people interested in that content and recruting good members will be easier.
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