Magtheridon's Cleave

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Magtheridon's Cleave

Postby Doloth » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:04 pm

Our guild has 4/6 SSC and 2/4 TK on farm, so we finally decided to go back and try Magtheridon just to get the progression kill and the title. It is taking some time to get everyone to figure out the cubes, and to not have tanks die, but overall we were getting there (only did 3-4 attempts a week as it was not that big of a deal).

However, there was one thing that disturbed me during our last attempt a week or so ago:

Magtheridon cleaves you for 11567 (394 blocked).

Now, I have since gotten slightly more armor and about 100 more block value, but seriously. I have 18.3k armor raid buffed, and I had 21k buffed hp, so I could have survived it had I been topped off, but our healers were doing a little catch up with the last blast nova (had been interrupted two ticks into it) and this I was killed by this hit.

Now, I can see how I can survive this, but it was still a rediculous hit. When I died, I was expecting that random crush through uncrushability, but found I had blocked the hit.

Is this normal? Is there anything I can do to help my healers out with this? So far Magtheridon has been the hardest hitter I have ever tanked, even more so than Tidewalker, whose hits average 4.5-5.5k.
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Postby Dorvan » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:44 pm

Topping off the tanks is virtually always the top priority in raid encounters. Make sure some healers are assigned to do this regardless of what happen to the rest of the raid. The rest of the raid needs to take some responsibility for boosting their own health a little until someone can toos them a heal, through pots, healthstones and bandages. You know when the raid is going to be taking damage, so tossing them heals shouldn't be a high priority as you'll have plenty of time until the next blast wave.

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Postby QuantumDelta » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:43 pm

Well, there are several things you can do as a raid immediately.
As a tank all you can really do is up your effective health if you're falling over to not being healed but ultimately that's only gonna help so much.
Other important stuff (REALLY) is to make sure he has a -ap debuff on him, it has a huge effect on his cleave, which only hits me for 7k at most these days , so that's:
Demoshout/roar/curse of weakness.
Those are the major things you can do.

I really love our Magtheridon tactics.

We have a very group based raid setup and always have, so our tactics do take that into account, which means there's never a moment that all healers are in charge of the cubes.
After a while of struggling we changed to our new (original as far as I know) tactic of this:

Group 1
Me (MT, Add 1/Mag)
Shaman (Resto, WoA/GoA/WF/whatever's needed) (MT Healer))
OT4 (War/Druid, Add 3)
OT2 (War/Druid, Add 5)
Resto Druid or Holy Paladin (OT 4 Healer)

Group 2
Hpriest (OT 1 Healer)
Holy Paladin/Resto Shaman (OT 3 Healer)
Resto Druid/Resto Shaman (OT 2 Healer)
Resto Druid/Holy Paladin/Resto Shaman/Holy Priest (Raid healer)

Group 3
OT1 (War/Druid, Add 4)

Group 4
Elemental/Resto Shaman
Balance Druid/Mage/Warlock

Group 5
Retri Pally
Enh Shaman
Warrior/Feral (DPS/OT3 for the 2nd add).

We set the groups up to be in charge of one cube each.
Each person inside those groups is given a 'priority' to click the cube based on their role.
DPS are always given priority one in their groups, and the lowest DPSers are given the highest priority out of the DPSers.
Healers are given spots based on what they're healing at the time, as with Tanks - Tanks are the only people who get cube priority over DPS if they're free in time to click it (we kill all the adds before he releases, so All tanks bar the MT and OT2 are given Priority 1), which means groups break down like this;

Group 1
5Me (MT, Add 1/Mag)
4Shaman (Resto, WoA/GoA/WF/whatever's needed) (MT Healer))
1OT4 (War/Druid, Add 3)
2OT2 (War/Druid, Add 5)
3Resto Druid or Holy Paladin (OT 4 Healer)

Person 1 Clicks the first flame thingy.
Person 2 Clicks the second flame thingy.
Person 1 Clicks the third flame thingy.
Person 2 Clicks the fourth flame thingy.
Person 1 Dies.
Person 3 Clicks the fifth flame thingy and assumes the role of Person 1.
Person 2 Clicks the sixth flame thingy.
Person 3 Clicks the seven flame thingy.

And so on.
VERY Occasionally you will lose entire groups reorganisation may be needed on ventrilo but this is normally not too much of a problem as #3s/#4s/#5s can take control of the other group as they know they have no responcibility in their own group unless someone dies (and they can reorganise their own numbers when someone adapts).

To finish off the setup:

Group 2
4Hpriest (OT 1 Healer)
2Holy Paladin/Resto Shaman (OT 3 Healer)
5Resto Druid/Resto Shaman (OT 2 Healer)
3Resto Druid/Holy Paladin/Resto Shaman/Holy Priest (Raid healer)

Group 3
1OT1 (War/Druid, Add 4)

Group 4
1Elemental/Resto Shaman
4Balance Druid/Mage/Warlock

Group 5
3Retri Pally
2Enh Shaman
1Warrior/Feral (DPS/OT3 for the 2nd add).

It SOUNDS complicated, but once it's understood it is insanely simple requires no communication over ventrilo (though you can have someone call '1s' and '2s' for each cube cycle if you want) and is easily flexible if something goes wrong with pre-organised cross group redundancy.

I've never met another guild that has used it, but whenever I explain it everyone thinks it's the best version they've heard.

Tips for 30% (or 20% whichever): You can divine shield the crap from the ceiling as long as the boss is casting he wont de-agro you cuz he isn't attacking.
Leave at least two healers to raid heal and have the rest continue to focus on you.
Stay calm.
Even if you lose people on 30% you can still make it through with the flexibility of this tactic - focus on reorganising within your own groups unless a whole group (or 4 ppl from 1 group) has died - then let the raid leader call for a volunteer 3 from a group or two to take responsibility.
Don't be afraid to blow your timers at 30%.

General advice:
Everything about the fight is designed to make you panic, he is like archimonde.
If you panic, you wipe.

Keep your back to a wall to minimise the risk of you bouncing into healers, and tank him BETWEEN cubes right in the middle so you don't cleave one or the other - don't be afraid to re-adjust his position but tell the raid you're going to do so first.
Have raid healers ready to catch you when he breaks (2-3 should be sufficient to hold you until the rest of the raid arrives from add 4/5).
Try to have at least 3 adds down and no one dead by the time he's out, you may need to bring more healers and double up (healers) on later tanks, but don't neglect your raids hp (leave a healer on it). :P
Don't move when clicking the cube until he's banished but once he's banished let go - it's not a DPS race so don't kill yourself on the cubes.
Melee are likely to die from his cleave during bouncey stuff if they end up infront of him get them to move out ASAP pop evasion/def stance/bubble DONT TAKE RISKS DPS WILL BE ONESHOT BY HIS CLEAVE.
It is possible, but not practical to stop all waves of his fire nova, leave someone raid healing.

If you're getting him to release every time you're there for the most part.

And yes, Mag is the hardest hitter in T4-5 content (bar Kael's fireballs and Karathress' shamans' windfury maybe), you need to be constantly topped off - the healers priorities is you.

Magtheridon for dummies? (haven't talked about the adds but you didn't mention a problem there)
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Postby sbeacher » Thu May 01, 2008 1:28 pm

This happened to me this week.

In less than 2 seconds,

Mag got a regular hit on me for just under 6k.

Then he CLEAVED me for almost 11k.

This was right as the ceiling busted so the debris fell on me for over 5k damage.

I had about 21k buffed health and I wasn't completely topped off right then. Dead pally. I was kinda in shock because it had been quite a while when I had just DIED during a fight that wasn't like an unforseen pull or healers dying or something.
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Postby maccalus » Thu May 01, 2008 1:54 pm

Once again, if you can get demo shout up that cleave will hit you for 7-8k instead of 11k. Tell your warriors to stop being lazy and get it up. I haven't taken an 11k cleave in a long time (but being a warrior I can keep it up myself).
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Postby klauth » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:57 am

Yesterday we tried it too with me as main tank. I also died because of a 10K blocked Cleave hit. This was the first time we wiped when nothing else went wrong (tries before that had some problems with clicking the cubes after reaching 30%). Its pretty insane this guy hits that hard. Anyway I'm glad I found this topic and now have a possible solution to make sure he doesn't cleave for that much. Thanks for your replies.
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Postby DT- » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:07 pm

killed mag at 3rd try - When me made some changes: shammy with agil totem in MT group, lock with imp too, war + roar.. => +2k hp and 4% dodge.. + elexir of major aggy.. it makes me 56-58% avoid and 20.5k buffed hp.. killed him in 9min..

P.S. if group eat Blast Nova - "love" cub-controllers..
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Postby Metheoro » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:40 am

just to be VERY SURE...
at 30% when the ceiling goes down

bubble dont reset ur agro JUST stop it right?

yesterday i died that way everybody got stuned and i ate all the hits including the 10k cleave:/

bubble the answer?
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Postby Tyaera » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:57 pm

No, the healers topping you off before the ceiling falling, and then landing big heals on you immediately after, is the answer.

When doing any 25man raid encounters, the main tank should have at least two healers on him who DO NOT DEVIATE FROM THAT TANK.
better to tank in hell than DPS in heaven
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