Slightly OT: Gruul

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Postby Invisusira » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:40 pm

Ranged dps is indeed FAR better than melee for this fight. Tips:
1) All melee needs to be behind Gruul at all times for a couple reasons. One, keeping cave-ins off the tank and two, if one of their attacks gets parried (which only happens if you're in front of the mob), Gruul's next attack will be faster.
2) As you start getting to 10+, have Paladins do a bubble rotation. One pally bubbles through the silence. HoTs and making sure BOTH tanks are topped off at all times are both critical in this phase.
3) Dying in the shatters is of course a raid wiper. If someone dies each shatter, your DPS and healing will keep going down and down when it matters more and more.
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Postby Gerilith » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:02 pm

The tank should never die before the 13th or 14th grow or something wnt wrong.

Of course all HoTs should be up, Pals must have light's grace up and start casting immidiatly after the silence effect. Perhaps DS could help, too and the tank must blow his CDs for silence/shatter in grow 10+.
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Postby plisken451 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:57 pm

Yes, dps is great and gets it done more easily. However, there should be relatively little raid damage. If your raid members are dying before the tank, its their own fault.


Having played this fight in two regards, healing (priest) and dps (lock), any ranged dps that dies to a cave-in, pre-grow-ten is an idiot. The cave-ins don't cause enough damage that a single tick can kill you until much later in the fight, and there's a grace period before you take damage. So, that should never happen.

Bad positioning on shatters can, and do happen, but those should be few and far between.

If you're going to run Gruul again soon, capture a /combatlog and post it to WWS. Then see what is happening. Data is better than speculation, potential drama and name-calling.
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Postby honorshammer » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:28 am

plisken451 wrote:
Yes, dps is great and gets it done more easily. However, there should be relatively little raid damage. If your raid members are dying before the tank, its their own fault.


Having played this fight in two regards, healing (priest) and dps (lock), any ranged dps that dies to a cave-in, pre-grow-ten is an idiot. The cave-ins don't cause enough damage that a single tick can kill you until much later in the fight, and there's a grace period before you take damage. So, that should never happen.

Bad positioning on shatters can, and do happen, but those should be few and far between.

If you're going to run Gruul again soon, capture a /combatlog and post it to WWS. Then see what is happening. Data is better than speculation, potential drama and name-calling.


http://wowwebstats.com/ymonpnhh2r1ze

Looks like Reverb and not enough HoTs.
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Postby plisken451 » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:08 pm

Looking at the who heals whom, it looks like your priests are primarily on the MT, and the tree is raid healing. That's a little backwards. Priests used to be the best single target healers, but have since been overshadowed by paladins and trees. The priests should be healing the melee and raid, and keeping renews and prayer of mending on the MT. The paladins and tree should conversely be on the MT.

I didn't look at all the attempts, just one of the better ones.

FWIW.
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Postby honorshammer » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:01 am

More Gruul's Questions:

What is his attack speed?

Does Cave In eat a Shield Block Charge?

Code: Select all
04:45'10.515 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Melee misses Brindall
04:45'11.515 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Melee hits Brindall for 7960 (587 blocked)
04:45'12.265 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Cave In dots Brindall for 2390 Physical damage
04:45'12.890 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Melee hits Brindall for 6569 (587 blocked)
04:45'13.640 Prinsess's Melee parried by Gruul the Dragonkiller
04:45'14.468 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Melee hits Brindall for 11052 (crushing)
04:45'14.968 Brindall's Revenge parried by Gruul the Dragonkiller
04:45'15.468 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Melee hits Brindall for 12138 (crushing)


Full log http://wowwebstats.com/pebeu1gbklbdq?bl=0
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Postby jere » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:56 am

Honorshammer wrote:More Gruul's Questions:

What is his attack speed?

Does Cave In eat a Shield Block Charge?

Code: Select all
04:45'10.515 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Melee misses Brindall
04:45'11.515 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Melee hits Brindall for 7960 (587 blocked)
04:45'12.265 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Cave In dots Brindall for 2390 Physical damage
04:45'12.890 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Melee hits Brindall for 6569 (587 blocked)
04:45'13.640 Prinsess's Melee parried by Gruul the Dragonkiller
04:45'14.468 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Melee hits Brindall for 11052 (crushing)
04:45'14.968 Brindall's Revenge parried by Gruul the Dragonkiller
04:45'15.468 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Melee hits Brindall for 12138 (crushing)


Full log http://wowwebstats.com/pebeu1gbklbdq?bl=0


I am confused. I could be reading it wrong (I am pretty tired), but I see two blocks followed by some crushes with no SB refresh inbetween. Isn't that how it is supposed to happen? I thought SB gave 2 blocks in 5 seconds. If both charges were eaten, I would have expected a crush.
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Postby honorshammer » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:49 pm

I edited it. Thank you for pointing that out.

Code: Select all
04:45:09.875  Brindall attacks. Gruul the Dragonkiller parries.
04:45:10.828  Brindall gains Shield Block.
04:45'10.515 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Melee misses Brindall
04:45'11.515 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Melee hits Brindall for 7960 (587 blocked)
04:45'12.265 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Cave In dots Brindall for 2390 Physical damage
04:45'12.890 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Melee hits Brindall for 6569 (587 blocked)
[b]04:45:13.515  Shield Block fades from Brindall.[/b]
04:45'13.640 Prinsess's Melee parried by Gruul the Dragonkiller
04:45'14.468 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Melee hits Brindall for 11052 (crushing)
04:45'14.968 Brindall's Revenge parried by Gruul the Dragonkiller
04:45'15.468 Gruul the Dragonkiller's Melee hits Brindall for 12138 (crushing)
04:45:15.937  Brindall dies.


He activates SB at 10, gets hit at 11 and 12. Then loses SB somewhere around 13, gets crushed at 14, hits revenge, gets crushed at 15 and dies.

Gruul melee at 10, 11, 12, 14, and 15.

What if anything could Brindall or any of us done differently?
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Postby plisken451 » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:04 pm

First off, who's Prinsess? Everybody needs to be attacking Gruul from behind. When the boss parries, his auto-attack swing is sped up, and that is what tends to eat through Shield Block charges. Cave-in may eat through charges, but I don't remember. This particular snippet just looks like bad luck.
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Postby gwayne » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:04 pm

04:45'13.640 Prinsess's Melee parried by Gruul the Dragonkiller


Tell your melee to stand behind Gruul. When the tank get's parried and crushed it is bad luck. When others parry and the tank gets crushed it's bad positioning.
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Postby jere » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:19 pm

It looks like from what you posted that shield block was down and someone caused Gruul to parry so he got 2 hits in really fast.. Looks like his normal melee is somewhere between 1.5-2 seconds per hit. And I don't think cave in eats any SB charges.
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Postby honorshammer » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:20 pm

plisken451 wrote:First off, who's Prinsess? Everybody needs to be attacking Gruul from behind. When the boss parries, his auto-attack swing is sped up, and that is what tends to eat through Shield Block charges. Cave-in may eat through charges, but I don't remember. This particular snippet just looks like bad luck.


Prinsess is a pet.
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Postby Gerilith » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:35 pm

Honorshammer wrote:
plisken451 wrote:First off, who's Prinsess? Everybody needs to be attacking Gruul from behind. When the boss parries, his auto-attack swing is sped up, and that is what tends to eat through Shield Block charges. Cave-in may eat through charges, but I don't remember. This particular snippet just looks like bad luck.


Prinsess is a pet.

Hail 2.3!

Pets will try to get behind their targets when engaging in melee combat.
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Postby kvark » Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:42 pm

The easiest way to kill gruul is to challenge your DPS'ers. Esp your ranged dpsers, tell them that there is absolutely no way they can pull agro off you after first shatter so they should just close their KTM's. Did that and we went from grow 16 type dps to grow 11.

Melee DPS is different tho, they need to watch their stuff or get waxed.
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Postby Mouse » Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:59 am

for the silence, we have the 3rd prot tank (hes on farm, we can well afford the dps loss, and hes already there from maulgar) or a dps war, whoever is there to intervene during silences, to save MT dying after grow 8 or so.
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