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Slightly OT: Gruul

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Slightly OT: Gruul

Postby honorshammer » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:00 am

Basically our guild has HKM on farm. I mean, come on, learn the pull = farm.

We have been on Gruul for 3 solid weeks. Best attempt was around 35%.

Our RL is convinced we need SPriests and Locks so their DoTs can tick during Shatters, and Range >> Melee dps for this fight.

Is she on the right track?
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Postby plisken451 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:09 am

Well, need a little more info. Are you running out of people due to cave-ins and shatters? Is the tank dying as Gruul's damage ramps up? What grow are you on when you guys wipe? Is everybody in the raid buffed with a Blades Edge flask?

Gruul is all about the dps paying attention and not being stupid.
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Postby honorshammer » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:15 am

I'll answer to the best of my ability. I'm usually very focused on my job (keep 2nd threat on Gruul) that I don't see the overall picture well.

Are you running out of people due to cave-ins and shatters?

- Not anymore

Is the tank dying as Gruul's damage ramps up?

Main Tank is dying (Warrior)

What grow are you on when you guys wipe?

10 or 11

Is everybody in the raid buffed with a Blades Edge flask?

Yes
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Postby Warrender » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:24 am

Honorshammer wrote:Is the tank dying as Gruul's damage ramps up?

Main Tank is dying (Warrior)


Sounds like your healers aren't focused on healing the MT. When I was healing this encounter, we had all the healers focus exclusively on the MT with the exception of 1-2 on the OT after a certain number of growths. Around 6-8, if I remember correctly.

After that number of growths, everyone that wasn't a MT or OT was responsible for their own survival as those two got all the heals.
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Postby Brute » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:25 am

With that its going to be one of the two:

1. Get the tank better gear

or

2. Yell at the healers

A tank in a lot of Kara gear who is blocking every hit shouldn't get killed if he's getting spam-healed, which he should be by that time in the growths. Gruul should be only a couple of growths from dying at that point. If he gets into the 15-16 range you need to yell at the DPS.
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Postby Gerilith » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:57 am

Grow 11 and 35% is hard, too. But no tank should die at this stage of the fight.

You definitely do not need SPriests and or afflilocks. But your DPS has to focus more. About 7 healers, 2 Tanks and the rest gogoDPS should work fine, more than 8 healers make it hard to kill him before the MT is literally oneshotted.

The healers should of course increase their healing like the damage does, ending up in spamming maxrank on grow 14+.

And save up and rotate the instantheals for shatter because the MT should be at full health when the first hit comes.
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Postby Kitria » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:57 am

After grow #8 we tell our healers to focus exclusively on the MT and hateful strike tank. If your dps doesn't have him down to the mid-30s by grow #10 it's a dps problem. I'm fairly sure there's a bad silence around that time because we used to have a lot of trouble with our MT dying around then, just make sure he's aware he might have to use a cooldown and get your healers to load up hots before a silence.
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Postby adese » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:04 am

Honorshammer wrote:Is everybody in the raid buffed with a Blades Edge flask?

Yes


While the Blades Edge flasks are nice (definitely can't beat the price), you do tend to get more stats from the traditional flasks. Flask of Fortification gives 500 health and 10 defense rating, while the Sorcerer flask gives 20 stamina and 20(?) spell damage. I would suggest using a Flask of Fortification (especially while learning the fight), since the more HP you can get, the better.
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Postby Gerilith » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:07 am

Ah, Stoneshield Potions are a must have if you are learning this encounter, btw. And your Warrior should save his cds (pocket watch, stones + skills) for grow 10+, of course.
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Postby plisken451 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:44 am

My former guild used to have this problem. Our tank would wilt for no apparent reason around grow 10. Unfortunately, this was before the widespread use of WWS, so we never got a good reason for it, but having the healers spam the MT after 8 or 9 is never a bad idea. So, you've either got an MT that isn't using all the tricks of the trade, or healers that are too focused on raid healing.
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Postby honorshammer » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:09 am

I talked with one of our healers (Resto Druid). It seems what is happening is

Growth
Reverb (Silencing effect)
Tank dies
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Postby Warrender » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:18 am

Honorshammer wrote:I talked with one of our healers (Resto Druid). It seems what is happening is

Growth
Reverb (Silencing effect)
Tank dies


Use boss mods with timers that tell you how long you have until the next Reverb. Top off tank and get HOT's on him before the next one goes off.
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Postby honorshammer » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:28 pm

This was my RL's response to my suggestion we don't need Locks and SPriests:

RL wrote: we're not having trouble tanking him so much as keeping our DPS alive long enough to drop him fast. I think our best attempts were with 2 locks and 2 shadow priest, and if at all possible the next time around i want to shoot for 3 locks, and 2 shadows. They made a HUGE difference
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Postby Questioner » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:13 pm

Your first kill of Gruul will probably come in around the 16th growth. I would say your raid leader is too focused on the dps aspect and not focused enough on his healing/surviving strategy.

Yes, dps is great and gets it done more easily. However, there should be relatively little raid damage. If your raid members are dying before the tank, its their own fault. For the silence, just as was suggested, make sure the tank is loaded up on hots.
<3 Tankadin at Heart.

Not necessarily accurate: Armory
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Postby Kitria » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:15 pm

If the dps aren't surviving long enough, then it's not a matter of what class you bring, but one of how smart your dpsers are. Nobody should die before grow 8, and smart dps can stay up till the tank is dead.
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