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Flames of Azzinoth

Naj'entus, Supremus, Akama, Gorefiend, Gurtogg Bloodboil, RoS, Sharaz, Council, Illidan

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Postby Questioner » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:37 am

Nevrosion wrote:Is this synced movement needed? Or can both kite inner on the way up, and outer on the way down, without the flames getting too far from eachother?


Bosskillers is WRONG. It has nothing to do with the flames position in relation to each other. Nobody in the raid can be further than ~25 yards from the blade in the ground.

The blade acts like a totem. It gives out a buff that makes it so you can't be charged. Go outside of the totems range, lose the buff (it is an invisible buff), and you will be charged.

If you are meeting, you've gone too far. Here is a picture:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/714/illidanhg0.jpg

It isn't exact size, but you get the idea. Looking at the bottom circle, I turn around where you see the slices in the ground inside the first concentric circle. The flame is dead by the time I get back to the beginning.

Now if only people wouldn't panic during p4. /sigh
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Postby Splug » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:01 am

However the one starting on outer will have problems facing the flame away from the raid and not stepping in his "outer" flamepath which by now is filled with shait on the ground.

For what it's worth, keep in mind there is a short cooldown on the cone of fire which spawns blazes. If you move right when a blaze spawns under you, there's enough time to rotate the flame toward the raid, run in, let the flame catch up, then double back and flip him around before he performs the attack again. However, I would not suggest trying it until you have a really intuitive feel for the cooldown on fire blast (or whatever it's called). Also, I wouldn't recommend doing it if you're tanking the first flame, because full-speed running is not very condusive to threat build.

Also, we tanked our flames with both tanks starting on the outside path by sheer miscommunication for three weeks before we figured out that's what we'd been doing. It did not cause any charges or enrages.

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Postby Questioner » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:43 am

However the one starting on outer will have problems facing the flame away from the raid and not stepping in his "outer" flamepath which by now is filled with shait on the ground.



I didn't get to mention this before, but I have had no problems when on the inside path (with fire on the outside) keeping the flame perpendicular to the raid, rather than facing completely away. Just as long as he is only breathing on you
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Postby Raice » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:40 pm

Questioner wrote:Bosskillers is WRONG. It has nothing to do with the flames position in relation to each other. Nobody in the raid can be further than ~25 yards from the blade in the ground.

The blade acts like a totem. It gives out a buff that makes it so you can't be charged. Go outside of the totems range, lose the buff (it is an invisible buff), and you will be charged.



This is 100% correct. Please take note of this. It allows the tanks to be much further away from eachother, facing both flame outward, away from the raid.
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Postby Raice » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:40 pm

Raice wrote:
Questioner wrote:Bosskillers is WRONG. It has nothing to do with the flames position in relation to each other. Nobody in the raid can be further than ~25 yards from the blade in the ground.

The blade acts like a totem. It gives out a buff that makes it so you can't be charged. Go outside of the totems range, lose the buff (it is an invisible buff), and you will be charged.



This is 100% correct, Bosskillers info is flawed. Please take note of this. It allows the tanks to be much further away from eachother, facing both flame outward, away from the raid.
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What I learned from tanking flames

Postby tackle » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:07 am

THE BEAM IS WIDER THAN IT LOOKS!!!

It was an issue for us in learning how to tank. Most important trick was to turn down spell effects to 25-35% or so and then you can see what is going on well enough. (beams still suck to see sometimes)

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Postby sanctifico » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:21 am

I've done it from try one with everything maxed out, fair enough you just get a blue and green dayglow patch on the floor but i must be doing something right.

Phase Two breakdown.
Sanctifico 3.46:1
Flame | 234,526
Blaze | 67,680
190 sec

Aeyla 1.30:1
Flame | 128,904
Blaze | 99,027
83 sec

Clearley our druid needs to l2p ^^
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Postby Warrender » Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:54 pm

onacouch wrote:We got him down I think it was 2 raid weeks ago. recorded the flames on the fly, not my best work, but hey, I didn't die.

http://files.filefront.com/Flames+of+Azzinothm4v/;9537777;/fileinfo.html


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Very nice video that really shows a lot more than most flame tanking videos.
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Postby Inferno255 » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:26 am

We use me and a druid for flames. Mine is killed initially as I have alot better threat gen. I position my flame in a meleefriendly way which makes it possible to kill the first flame pretty fast.

If you're wondering how to know where the tether ends, I'll try explain:
Set your spelldetail low first. There are 4 straight lines in your kitepath which have outward lining aswell. The ones closer to the blade will have their outward lining move inwards, the ones on the turning point will have their outward lining move outwards. This is the indication to turn around and move the other way again.

Whatever you do don't move the flames too fast, there is no reason to whatsoever. If you are slow enough the blazes on the first half will have decayed by the time you reach the end of the second half. Use an 8 or circle kitepath there. This means that melee should be able to dps about 50% of the time or more.

Dodging beams itself is pretty easy to do, just be sure to be zoomed out a long way. We first used someone in the raid to call out beams, but most of the time this just got me killed instead. It's better to keep your eyes open yourself and don't listen to players on vent screaming/telling you to move(they're usually wrong and just get you killed).
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Postby sanctifico » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:02 am

It's easier to see it on a video (although my spell detail is maxed (first illidan kill too :p) http://www.vimeo.com/815228

We'd been doing P2 cleanly for 2hours by this point, and dps had been kicked into shape with spreading out.

Their leash point is huge btw, so dont be scared of stepping way out for the beams.
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Postby Oramac » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:34 am

Inferno255 wrote:Dodging beams itself is pretty easy to do, just be sure to be zoomed out a long way. We first used someone in the raid to call out beams, but most of the time this just got me killed instead. It's better to keep your eyes open yourself and don't listen to players on vent screaming/telling you to move(they're usually wrong and just get you killed).


this is sorta right. it's quite helpful to have someone calling the eye beams IMO, you just have to A) make sure you also look and make sure, and B) make sure the guy calling em isnt a retard. we have our MT call ours and it works out quite well.

also, im planning on making a video specific to Flame tanking and want to get a little pre-recording feedback on what all needs to be in it? i plan to keep vent on and use no music in it so people can hear whats going on as well as see it, but im looking for other things that would need to go in as well.
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Postby Questioner » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:43 am

I know its been mentioned before, but for me it helps to use sound to tell if you are in the blaze over anything else. It has a distinct sound, and it is always occurring when you are in it.

Only time can teach you the sound and the timing of the flame breath / blaze drop.
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Postby sanctifico » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:05 am

Most guilds tend to have the Illidan tank call the flames. since they have nothing better to do during this phase.


Having SCT where you can read it helps too, if you see your taking lots of fire damage, your probably stood in a green patch, if its just lots of "250(1750 resisted)" dont worry.

I removed the sound on mine, because our Illidan tank kept forgetting to call the beams, so it was eyes wide open ^^
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Postby Dragonzbane » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:14 pm

Trying this tonight.

I'm using the full Badge Gear set with stamina enchants.
Along with that the Flambane Helm with 3 Dawnstones + the FR Enchant and my Devil Shark with the FR enchant (I don't have a cloak with more defense).

My option is either the Attunement Quest ring and my Eternium Bracers or Tanking Rings and Flamebane Bracers. Seems to me that if I went with the Quest ring/Eternium combo I'd get a little better FR, Stam, Dodge but lose a little Defense(Miss, Parry, Block, obv).

Quest Ring/Eternium w/Aura:
375 & 483

Tank Rings/Flamebane w/Aura:
373 & 488

But the FR cap is 360, right?

S now, I'm wondering if I shouldn't go:
Quest Ring + Eternium Bracers
15 FR Cloak Enchant -> Defense Cloak Enchant
(1)Helm Defense gem -> (1)Helm Stamina gem

Unfortunately, I can't get to any paper doll pages to see if that would work.

Does that look doable to anyone that can?
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Postby knaughty » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:04 pm

I'm working on this right now, just some notes on my experience. We (sometimes) get through P2, P3/4 look easy by comparison. Seen it twice, made more progress in two attempts on P3/4 that the first hour of P2 :(

Bosskillers is even more wrong that usual. Ignore it.

I would say the gear order is as follows:

Utmost Priority. Capped FR. This means 365 or higher. I'm using 4/4 badge gear with flame armour patches, the 24 FR / 30 stam quest neck, and a spare Battleworn Tuskguard with a +20 FR enchant and one void crystal. FR legs have a Libram of resilience on them for +20.

200 FR from the badge gear, 24 from neck, 44 from enchants on the badge gear, 24 for enchant + void sphere on the hat, 5 from being a belf. 297 total, 2 over the cap. Non-belfs will need to add another Void Sphere to the had to hit 301. Same set will put you close to uncrittable.

Second? Get uncrittable. Yes, you can tank flames crittable. I did our first successful P2 with 465 defense.
But last week, with 367 FR, 472 def, I took a critical hit for over 15k, resisted only 2k.

• Yes, I had capped FR.
• Yes, my defense was pretty decent.
• No, 13k to the face was not recoverable. Didn't one-shot me, but I died immediately afterwards. Raid Leader though I got beamed by INVUSABUIL I-BEAMZ!!!

Over the weekend I got uncrittable. Easiest way is to pick up some resilience gear. I have <100 lifetime PvP kills on my pally - you don't need to PvP to get resilience gear. Three easiest pieces to get if you're a "Zero PvP" person such as myself are:

Timelapse Shard - Exalted Keepers of Time.
Signet of Eternal Life - 3rd chest, timed ZA. Guild defaulted it to me for my Flame-tanking set after the "15k to face"
Veteran's Lamellar Belt is available for 40 hero badges.

This is with only two or three BT gear pieces. I'm a new recruit from a 4/5, 4/9 guild to "working on Illidan", so I'm not dripping with MH/BT gear. Steelweave enchant was a big help as well. As was the "nerf" to the tuskguard. It's worse for AE tanking now, may as well use it for the FR set.

Third? Stack stamina.

The real key to an effective Flame tanking set is to get capped with only five pieces of FR gear. This gives you a lot more room for you defence/stamina pieces. The 12 FR you get from putting a libram of resilience on you legs instead of a 8 FR flame patch is the sort of stuff that lets you cap without using the crafted FR helm. 2.4 version of the Tuskguard with 20 to 32 FR on it from enchant/void spheres is rather nice due to massive defence rating.

NB: I'm now capped on both without using a chromatic resistance flask or a fort flask. So I'm now flasking Blinding Light. But while you're working on it, either of those can help you cap. Only BT pieces I'm using are Kaz shield and Eternium shell bracer. Have the MH trash-drop mace as well, which isn't relevant, was using ZA mace last week.
• Hat is ZA,
• Chest is 2.3 badge.
• T-5 shoulders
• Al'ar cloak with Steelweave
• T-5 crafted belt
• Revered band of eternity - not even exalted yet.

So you can absolutely cap both FR and defence without needing BT/MH stuff.

Lastly: If you're not willing to blow 100 badges on your FR set, get someone else to tank it. Seriously, the basic starting point for any P2 tank is the 4/4 heroic badge set. 200 FR for 4 slots is a total non-brainer. Then you only need 100 more, and you can do that with one piece with 20-30 FR and the enchants.
Last edited by knaughty on Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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