Reliquary of Souls

Naj'entus, Supremus, Akama, Gorefiend, Gurtogg Bloodboil, RoS, Sharaz, Council, Illidan

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, fiend

Postby Morganim » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:26 am

The basic point is your prot paladin is right in saying he will spend the fight sitting at 0 mana
BUT
after the mana burn + hit he will take enough damage that 2 big heals will give him just enough mana for our basic threat rotation

Consecrate
Judgement
Re-Seal
Chuck up holy shield if you have mana left over

Give him another go, have 2 pallies/shamans/priests spamming on him all the time and he will find he doesnt have mana issues, even tho once or twice he may need to downrank a spell or 2
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Postby Fangwui » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:16 am

my guild is on this fight as well and we have yet to reach p3. my understanding though is that if he uses a destruction potion, pops his wings and just frontloads as much threat as he can, the DPS should be able to go all out without having to worry about aggro. i've also read that the seethe mechanism (which increases aggro gen by 100%) can be put to good use here.
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Postby Worldie » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:18 am

Prot paladins don't need seethe at all for this fight. It's actually also quite hard to trigger as paladin since u need a war taunting and then taunt off him.

Just wait 10-15 seconds, then pop iwin button and zerg :)
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Postby Stroja » Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:20 am

Chiamblagh wrote:In our early attempts, our Paladin tank gave a few tries, but decided that he cannot possibly maintain threat, because he has no mana. Clearly, based on this thread, this does not have to be the case, which leads me to believe that there is some fundamental difference in how you all are tanking it, and how our Paladin tried to tank it.


He is right. He will spend most of the fight with very little mana - but it isn't really needed. He'll be taking just enough incoming damage to keep popping threat abilities. With the scaling increase to damage done, he'll be looking at 400+ Consecration ticks and 600+ Holy Shield hits by the end of the fight.

Have him use a Flask of Blinding Light, spell damage food, and spell damage weapon oil - even the 2pc T4 set bonus if possible. If you're still having threat capping issues, put him in a Shadow Priest group and his TPS will skyrocket (no waiting on mana).
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Postby Worldie » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:43 am

The actual challenge of RoS p3 for a prot paladin is maintaining your threat cycle (which is, ironically, exactly 10 seconds, same as the CD of soul scream), and using all your abilities before the next scream.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

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Postby Chiamblagh » Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:54 am

Yeah, I realized he'll be very low on mana. But his argument went beyond that, saying that because of that, it's impossible for him to generate any meaningful amounts of threat, which is clearly not the case.

The comments so far have been very helpful. Of course, more is always welcome :)

Now that I think I have a firm understanding of what to ask him to do, given another chance... The problem becomes getting another chance. =P
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:34 pm

Chiamblagh wrote:Yeah, I realized he'll be very low on mana. But his argument went beyond that, saying that because of that, it's impossible for him to generate any meaningful amounts of threat, which is clearly not the case.

The comments so far have been very helpful. Of course, more is always welcome :)

Now that I think I have a firm understanding of what to ask him to do, given another chance... The problem becomes getting another chance. =P
Remind him that if he has 0 mana, the warrior has 0 rage. He shouldn't expect to do this threat right after the scream, but right after the heal lands. Keeping at least 2 ranks of consecration and rank 1 holy shield available is key for yyou to not stop casting at all.
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Postby Enkal » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:03 am

So, we've downed Bloodboil and are now going to start working on RoS. I've been set as phase 1 tank and our warrior MT on ph 2 & 3.

I've told our raid leader that a tankadin is a perfect choice for ph3 but he said that our warrior told him that she can constantly get 0 rage... :shock: All of this she told our raid leader in private, she never said anything to me or even discussed it. :(

Wouldnt this mean serious threat issues? I've noticed that ppl ride her threat very close on Teron.

We'll bring 2 tankadins and 1 warrior tomorrow so my suggestion would be 1 tankadin in BV gear for ph1, warrior for ph2 and 2nd tankadin in ph3 geared slightly for threat... any suggestions how to convince the warrior that she might not be the best tank for ph3? I've already posted damage numbers from full rage vs. full mana bar on our forums (worst case scenarios).
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Postby Stroja » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:16 pm

Enkal wrote:any suggestions how to convince the warrior that she might not be the best tank for ph3?


If they're determined to do it the hard way, all you can do is be ready to pick up the boss if the warrior dies.
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Postby Enkal » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:20 pm

Stroja wrote:
Enkal wrote:any suggestions how to convince the warrior that she might not be the best tank for ph3?


If they're determined to do it the hard way, all you can do is be ready to pick up the boss if the warrior dies.


My thought... I "steal" Supremus every raid now. :roll:

Thanks! :)
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Postby knaughty » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:35 am

I was finally given a turn at RoS P3 this week. First time the guild hasn't been threat capped, and I took a ton less damage.

Wings + well over 1k Holy damage FTW on threat. Ran at about 3k TPS until CDs faded, no MDs.

Damage input on a paladin is MUCH lower in practice, and threat scaling with the debuff aura is a massive bonus.

Uncrushable threat set is 700 unbuffedc, Blinding Light, Wizard Oil, spell-damage food, destruction pot, Icon = 1,116 +holy for 20 seconds, with +30% from Wings.
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Postby Stroja » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:15 pm

Yep - not really any need to worry about uncrushability though, IMO - you'll get caught with HS down and no mana a few times. He crushes for less than what Gorefiend does on a normal hit.
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Postby knaughty » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:43 pm

Stroja wrote:Yep - not really any need to worry about uncrushability though, IMO - you'll get caught with HS down and no mana a few times. He crushes for less than what Gorefiend does on a normal hit.


Going to a pure damage set wouldn't net me much more +damage, maybe +100 extra? And would cost me a TON of mitigation.

I'd rather the extra heals were going to DPS - some of them still managed to kill themselves.

Second or third rotation in I missed HS due to OOM, yelled for a SP, raid leader stuck one in the tank group pronto, after that it was pretty much standard rotation.

Next week I'll put myself in with SP+shaman for Wrath of Air and mana return.
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Postby Tiandelin » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:08 pm

I use my "balanced" gear set for this fight, except that I swap a crusader card in place of my moroes trinket for a whopping 80 extra SD. I think I'm at about 450 or so unbuffed SD in that without crusader stacked. On top of that, I use wizard oil and a flask of blinding light. During the break before phase 3, I run up to the reliquary, turn around, toss down a consecrate, hit holy shield, and have crusader ready to judge while spamming tab to target him before he's active.

Once I get a target, I launch avenger's shield, judge, reseal righteousness, and just go to town from there. We bloodlust at 70%, and that's the point where I blow my wings and drink a destruction pot. I'm in a SP group with WoA, so I never have trouble with mana or staying ahead of the DPS.

As long as our healers are awake, it's an easy kill from there. We still sometimes mess up on phase 2, but phase 3 is one-shot territory for us.
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Postby Doktah » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:31 pm

You cant go wrong with a shadow priest and shammy in your group on this fight. My guild spent 2 raid nights on RoS before it was downed. Bloodboil has so far been the hardest since its mostly a luck fight.
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