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Gurtogg bloodboil

Naj'entus, Supremus, Akama, Gorefiend, Gurtogg Bloodboil, RoS, Sharaz, Council, Illidan

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Postby Lansky » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:17 am

Cakes wrote:Never the less, our clothies are getting destroyed with that arcing smash debuff up. Is there really anything that we can do about it or just grit and bear it?


Its a healer thing. They have to accept the fact that they need to spam their higher HPS healing rotation on the person and once the debuff goes up be ready to burn any helpful CD they have. ES on the Fel Rage target is a decent amount of help as well.


Oh and as a side note - Feral Druids that can't OT well are like Hunters that pull aggro. Somewhere whatever god they believe in is crying.
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Postby Cakes » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:07 pm

Well looking at our parses, one of the things the casters can do to help us out (I'm holy atm for this fight) is to stop freaking meleeing him while they get him out of the raid. One of our warlocks felt the magic that is parrygib last night.

We'll give it another shot tonight, and see how things go. There are definite things that we can improve, and I'm going to recommend we work our tank rotations like Psiven mentioned earlier. It just seems logical to have a tank go a full phase, get bopped at the end of fel rage, and use a new tank. I'm also going to have to crack down on our dps, as fel rage is the time to be doing damage, and I'm just not seeing it being done.
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Postby Splug » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:59 pm

If you're having issues with keeping the hate rotating, make sure you're utilizing your hunters. We have two or three in most raids, and having them load up whichever tank doesn't have acids ticking (and thus, is working on limited rage income) helps to keep Gurtogg moving from one tank to the next. Misdirects should be up every other phase 1.

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Postby Cakes » Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:47 am

Hehe, thanks to Psiven's awesome suggestion of tank rotations (which seemed so logical I was surprised I didn't think of it), we downed him tonight after only two attempts. Hell, we even had a mage get fel rage and we healed him through it, even though Bloodboil popped him right as fel rage wore off.

We were rewarded for our efforts with yet another dagger and spell haste healing leather. :(
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Postby Afraithe » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:32 am

35 stacks?

That would mean 9k damage per tick and almost 0 armor.

We never have more than around 10 stacks on our tanks.
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Postby Worldie » Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:16 pm

Bumping since we killed Gorefiend and so Bloodboil is next target.

At the moment both me and our warrior MT are perfectly capable of putting out 900-1k TPS (well, supposing we have mana/rage). I personally sit at 400ish spelldamage (bugged armory forgot my shield ><)

My questions are:
- How much pure avoidance is advised for this encounter?
- Do i need to get more spelldamage or the usual flask (+80) and Divine Spirit (+20) will do?
- Do we need 3 tanks or only 2? :)

Thanks for answers.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Gavel » Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:56 pm

Firstly, you'll want to fort flask. Gurtogg hits hard and has specials as well as DoT damage. You'll need as much health as you can get. I like to stamina stack for this fight because our 3rd tank is really bad at building secondary/tertiary threat so I often am overloaded with stacks of the debuff, and like to have a deep healthpool for when I'm invariably tanking him with upwards of 20 stacks (extremely unadvisable, but we can't seem to get around it) In terms of avoidance, before buffs I think I'm around 43% dodge+parry.

Second. If you can do it with 3 tanks you'll be a lot happier because the damage will be much more spread and the acid stacks won't build up on one person.

I've never found my personal threat to be an issue while OT'ing, but more that my OTs were struggling to outthreat just rank 1 holy shield damage when he was on me. The more hunters for misdirects you bring to the fight, the easier it becomes.

I love paladin tanking on this fight. The control you have with Divine Shield (which removes stacks) and BoP (which moves aggro but doesn't drop stacks) is really spectacular.

There are 3 things your raid needs to learn about this fight before he'll die.
1) Tanks need to control their epeen. If they go balls out when they're Gurtogg's focus they'll quickly build a threat lead the other tanks can't keep up with. Go easy, watch KTM and let the transitions happen.

2) Healers need to be able to forget everything they knew about efficiency and cast-cancel healing and spam the living daylights out of the person with Fel Rage. I firmly believe the luckiness in who gets Fel Rage will dictate if your attempt will be your first kill or just another wipe. That being said, I got Fel Raged 3 times in one fight and we still wiped. ><

3) The Fel Rage target needs to get familiar with what tools their class has to be able to survive. Bosskillers details a few of these things, but the execution of them is key.
Last edited by Gavel on Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby enbee » Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:48 pm

I tank gurtogg in my normal MT gear + mana oil, which adds up to 420 or so I think, I also use jow and I dont start out, the trick is really, to make sure none of the tanks build alot of threat once they have aggro, I do holy shield top rank once when I get aggro and then go r1 holy shield + sol.
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Postby Cakes » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:20 pm

We personally prefer 3 tanks on this fight due to the stacking mechanics of the dot, but there are some that have done it with 2 just fine. Gavel is right though, BoP is extremely useful in this fight on tanks with a ton of agro just as Fel Rage as ending, as is the ability to get rid of your own dot stack via Bubble.

You will have to be extremely careful using AW, if you chose to. I've used it before to perform threat takeovers, but then left myself with a lot of debuffs and forbearance still up at the end of a fel rage.

I stack stam and avoidance on this fight, including avoidance trinkets for those times that I need to not take any more debuff stacks.
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Postby Splug » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:26 am

I'd highly recommend three tanks, just due to the number of times I've seen the knockback -> disorient combo. If your first tank gets blown down the threat list, the second guy is suspended via disorient, and there's no third tank... a shadow priest is going to be fairly displeased in short order.

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Postby Worldie » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:26 pm

Is it normal that Fel Acid is hitting a random person in melee range instead of the current tank?
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Cakes » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:35 pm

Splug wrote:I'd highly recommend three tanks, just due to the number of times I've seen the knockback -> disorient combo. If your first tank gets blown down the threat list, the second guy is suspended via disorient, and there's no third tank... a shadow priest is going to be fairly displeased in short order.

-Splug


Not only that, but the people standing around him will probably be displeased as well. We've had Gurtogg at 3%, had a lock not soulshatter, pull agro, and wipe have the raid in one arcing smash. He went right back to the tank, but when all you have left is tanks and healers, it's just not enough.

From our experience Worldie, yes it is normal to have him target a random melee for the fel acid. We found that he did it less with 3 tanks, but it still happened.
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Postby Splug » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:36 pm

Worldie wrote:Is it normal that Fel Acid is hitting a random person in melee range instead of the current tank?


Yes. We have our Fel Acid-target rotate away from the other melee and into the "offtank pile" whenever possible, since the acid damage is an excellent rage feed for people who aren't tanking. We also have our offtanks between Gurtogg and the raid, since we had a few casters targetted with Fel Acid early on (though that may have been a positioning error on their part, since I don't recall it happening again recently).

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Postby Worldie » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:14 pm

Without considering the fact that he keeps using fel rage on mages and priests (i think he used already 20 in a row to those classes), we have troubles with the DoT stacks.

We are 3 tanks, transitions are happening quite often, the debuff stack is very random, sometimes we end with 4-5 stacks on the 3 tanks, sometimes we have 2 tanks with 10+ stacks and the other one with 0, is there a reliable way to avoid this?

Atm we are doing like this: the "current" tank does nothing, not even autoattack, and the 2 other tanks do their best to overaggro him.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Lansky » Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:04 am

Worldie wrote:We are 3 tanks, transitions are happening quite often, the debuff stack is very random, sometimes we end with 4-5 stacks on the 3 tanks, sometimes we have 2 tanks with 10+ stacks and the other one with 0, is there a reliable way to avoid this?

Atm we are doing like this: the "current" tank does nothing, not even autoattack, and the 2 other tanks do their best to overaggro him.


The debuff is an additional avoidance check on top of his attacks. If you are having trouble with high stacks then your tanks should do whatever possible to get some higher avoidance levels.

Also how long do you each end up tanking for? The way we've always done it is that other than oddly timed knockbacks our tanks have held him for 60-100% of a phase. We've never had any transitions that were not forced upon us by BB. It has never been an issue as until later in the fight after several knockbacks our tank's threat is good enough to stay ahead of our dps. Also when first starting BB our primary tank actually stacked a ton of avoidance relative to the other tanks, even to go as far as using Mudfish and agi scrolls. This really let us relax with transitions as he could tank BB for a long time without building up much of a debuff stack.

Also depending on your shaman population giving the MT group 2 shaman is a large boon to the warriors. WF and GoA totems for the full duration of the fight is a noticable difference in avoidance and threat generation rates. We tend to bring 4-5 shaman on raids whenever possible though (2-3 resto, 1 enhance, 1 ele).
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