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first time in hyjal

Winterchill, Anetheron, Kaz'rogal, Azgalor, Archimonde

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Postby jere » Tue May 06, 2008 10:05 am

Balsimar wrote:
Melathys wrote:I had built up a nice block value set for hyjal (700+)...yet I was running out of mana. Started using my standard tanking set (350ish BV) and everything was gravy.


The amount of BV needed is directly proportional to the quality of your healing force.


Oh I know this isn't true at all. I run it with 300-400 BV and the majority of our healers don't even pay attention half the time, yet we still manage to do it.
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Postby Balsimar » Tue May 06, 2008 10:10 am

jere wrote:
Balsimar wrote:
Melathys wrote:I had built up a nice block value set for hyjal (700+)...yet I was running out of mana. Started using my standard tanking set (350ish BV) and everything was gravy.


The amount of BV needed is directly proportional to the quality of your healing force.


Oh I know this isn't true at all. I run it with 300-400 BV and the majority of our healers don't even pay attention half the time, yet we still manage to do it.


The other side of that rule is the better quality of the healing force, the more they can sleep.

The heals you do get are most likely quality heals. :)
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Postby jere » Tue May 06, 2008 10:25 am

Or perhaps 300-400 is sufficient block value for the encounter. There are multiple sides to every story :)
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Postby Balsimar » Tue May 06, 2008 10:30 am

jere wrote:Or perhaps 300-400 is sufficient block value for the encounter. There are multiple sides to every story :)


You're right... there is absolutely no relationship between your ability to survive and the quality of healers in the raid, silly me.

Not even sure why we bother bringing healers, they just steal our T6 tokens anyway.
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Postby jere » Tue May 06, 2008 10:52 am

Balsimar wrote:
jere wrote:Or perhaps 300-400 is sufficient block value for the encounter. There are multiple sides to every story :)


You're right... there is absolutely no relationship between your ability to survive and the quality of healers in the raid, silly me.

Not even sure why we bother bringing healers, they just steal our T6 tokens anyway.


I even put a smiley in my post, but I think you still took my comment harshly.

There is indeed a relationship between your ability to survive and and quality of healing. However, like so many things, the relationship is bounded or has a pseudo bound and the derivative changes with time (I.E. is not constant). You can have enough survivability to where the difference in healing is negligible between two points on your scale. You can also have enough healing where the difference in survivability is negligible between two points on your scale. There are obviously points in between where the delta does differ greatly enough to make a difference.

It is very easy to toss out quotes like "you must have awesome healers" and "the quality of your healing must be good". It is equally easy to say that "X amount of block value is enough to easily survive the attack". Neither is really a definitive or factual response, as both sides are subjective and are based on a numerous amount of factors.
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Postby Balsimar » Tue May 06, 2008 11:06 am

jere wrote:
Balsimar wrote:
jere wrote:Or perhaps 300-400 is sufficient block value for the encounter. There are multiple sides to every story :)


You're right... there is absolutely no relationship between your ability to survive and the quality of healers in the raid, silly me.

Not even sure why we bother bringing healers, they just steal our T6 tokens anyway.


I even put a smiley in my post, but I think you still took my comment harshly.


Nah, I just forgot to add mine.

Either way, I'm not disagreeing with your 300-400 BV, I use about 350 myself. My comment was more along the lines of "judge how much you need by how well your healers can keep you up."
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Postby arilink » Fri May 09, 2008 8:56 pm

*performs thread resurrection*
That's me. (And that almighty BV is just around 500).
So as you might have guessed we've been Mount Hyjal first timers just last night.
And it was just plain cool.
Nobody got a real clue of what would be really happening.
Rumor had it that there might appear 8 waves of mobs and after that a boss.
Well it was time to check on that.
Those Ghouls and Spiders really did not do much as I had seen it.
The trouble started with those Necromancers who were a bit too dedicated to their shadowbolt spam. 4x 3k damage can be unhealthy sometimes.
Right after those fat Rammsteins went in killing stuff.
... well I had to try tanking them all, you know? :P
Yea thanks for the Free Action Potion advice.
I'll check on that next weekend.
So on the 2nd attempt we got these 6 abominations handled somehow.
But on wave 7 we got 4 Necros and 4 Abominations who caused mayhem all over again.
So I'm wondering if you were using CC in there somehow?
And all those other questions:
Do people stand all behind or at the sides?
Where do you tank exactly? (I found myself standing in between those footmen)
Do you care for the Abomination's AE or is it all tanked within that Ground Zero AoE zone?
Are those necromancers focused on first and do they need a tank?
I already read about an earthbind totem and yea we tried it as well.
Wasn't too bad but those braindead folks decided that waiting that extra time before the mobs arrived in my consecration is not affordable.
Oh yea, and do you run in front, to get all the initial aggro?
The question arises as those necromancers really can spike you.
Divine Shield + Holy Wrath for Sparta? For the pull of course.

We got 6 healers und 3 tanks besides me.
Where I have to admit that we just killed Voidreaver and completely skipped SSC as well. Cleared ZA however, well as know maintankadin for the win!
So our gear was not best suitable for this "task".
Talking about our so called "dps" it was 8,5 minutes for maggi right before.
Yea we went into mh right after downing him to have some fun :)
Hearing about 6k dps warlocks on the trash I have to lol about our 2,8k mages.

So if you have some ultra newbie advices that might be cool.
You know I love details ...
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Postby Phally » Sat May 10, 2008 1:11 am

Went in there last week for the first time as well and as arilink we had some trouble with the necromancers..

what we found best is too let a warrior bloodrage when they aggro and spell reflect while i consecrate at the warrior so every melee would aggro me.

We have the necromancers tanked by warriors/ferals and killed by the melee/every non AoE.

Once we did it this way we had a smooth kill of the first boss :D
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Postby Balsimar » Sat May 10, 2008 1:32 am

Phally wrote:We have the necromancers tanked by warriors/ferals and killed by the melee/every non AoE.


This is the key. Spell reflect can do wonders holding aggro on those guys.

You should also get in the habit of having mages polymorph a couple. The practice will come in handy for when you get to Azgalor trash.
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Postby Tekkel » Sat May 10, 2008 2:45 am

arilink wrote:

So on the 2nd attempt we got these 6 abominations handled somehow.
But on wave 7 we got 4 Necros and 4 Abominations who caused mayhem all over again.
So I'm wondering if you were using CC in there somehow? Well u can sheep a few necros but have the warrior tank stand rdy with spellreflect at the start of the pull when there's necros and he can just spellreflect tank them. If u lay down a conc on the warrior tank and time your holy wrath u should get all the aboms on u. With a fap u won't take a knockdown for 30 seconds and some other tanks can just take a few off you.
And all those other questions:
Do people stand all behind or at the sides? U can have some cc people on the sides, priest/mage but never closer to the gate then the warrior and pally tank.
Where do you tank exactly? (I found myself standing in between those footmen) That will do.
Do you care for the Abomination's AE or is it all tanked within that Ground Zero AoE zone? All in ground zero. But your melee can focus on the casters first and not stand in the AE.
Are those necromancers focused on first and do they need a tank? They don't really need a tank, warriors and rogues can take care of them.
I already read about an earthbind totem and yea we tried it as well.
Wasn't too bad but those braindead folks decided that waiting that extra time before the mobs arrived in my consecration is not affordable. U don't need it. Just time your holy wrath better.
Oh yea, and do you run in front, to get all the initial aggro? Nope stand still and make sure u're just behind the warrior tank so u can get your holy wrath off. He will be the innitial target for the mobs then.
The question arises as those necromancers really can spike you.
Divine Shield + Holy Wrath for Sparta? For the pull of course. Nope like said. Make the warrior stand in front of u with spellreflect up. He'll have aggro on them and won't take as much damage. They're casters so don't bother with them unless they stick to u in melee range.

We got 6 healers und 3 tanks besides me. Tbh that's really low when u go there the first time. The waves are doable with it but u probably lose people here and there due to lack of healing. However the 2nd boss is not doable with 6 healers unless u seriously outgear the place and everyone knows exactly what to do. Bringing a pally tank, warrior tank and 2 druids is good for this place at the start. Also 7-8 healers helps to survive the waves a bit better and the later bosses require 7 minimum anyway. If u bring like 5-6 aoe dps u can clear the waves fast enough anyway.

Yea we went into mh right after downing him to have some fun :)
Hearing about 6k dps warlocks on the trash I have to lol about our 2,8k mages. Aye pretty low. I even run 2.5k dps on trashwaves as a tank. Though when I run maxspelldmg with trinket procs I get up to 1150 spelldmg :)

So if you have some ultra newbie advices that might be cool.
You know I love details ...


U can tank the first boss, tank adds on the 2nd with some okish fr amount. 200ish will make life on your healer a bit easier. 3rd is possible to tank but u have a chance to blow up your melee. I just slack away with shadow res gear and nightfall here. 4th u can tank the demons but if u allready have 2 tanks in the raid and enough melee just heal some ranged dps. Archi I just heal if we got a warrior tank.
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Postby arilink » Sat May 10, 2008 7:43 am

Thanks for all the tips, they are helping a lot!
Can hardly wait for next Friday :wink:
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Postby superworm » Sat May 10, 2008 10:18 am

Phally wrote:Went in there last week for the first time as well and as arilink we had some trouble with the necromancers..

what we found best is too let a warrior bloodrage when they aggro and spell reflect while i consecrate at the warrior so every melee would aggro me.

We have the necromancers tanked by warriors/ferals and killed by the melee/every non AoE.

Once we did it this way we had a smooth kill of the first boss :D


We used exactly the same strategy for the trash mobs with necromances. However at the fourth boss trash, I put on some shadow resist gear and tank all the necromances/banshees/fel hunters at the same time and AOE them down to save time, other way we won't have enough time to drink...My shadow resist is at 272 with priest buff and I think it works fine.
For the 6 necromances/banshee wave, I run about 30 yards before the first NPC and excorcism one banshee, then I would pop my DS and all the mobs will get in my melee range. Then I just throw down a concecration and cancel the DS, and tell our warlocks to start seeding. Destruction warlock talent spell (with a radius stun effect) is great for interrupting shadow bolts. Tell your rogues to focus on the banshee first. (It seems you can neither purge nor mass-dispell the anti-magic shell)
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Re: first time in hyjal

Postby Drak » Mon May 12, 2008 11:14 am

Balsimar wrote:The best rewards are found within yourself, untarnished by external complications.

You should take pride in your own accomplishments, and not worry about how anyone else plays the game.


This.

Though still, I was never bothered much because 4/5 4/9 is very easy and nearly any guild with 25 people can do those bosses. Bloodboil/Archimonde is where T6 actually gets somewhat difficult (minus mother i guess, the only hard part is getting shadow res), and many of the guilds I see skipping large chunks of SSC/TK never make it past 4/5 4/9, assuming they even get that far. Heck, an old guild of mine that actually managed to kill kael/vashj (the week before 2.4) STILL hasn't gotten past 4/5 4/9.
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