Trash waves and loot

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Postby Todyn » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:24 am

ZOMG!

Silver Handers!

Hi Dazh! :)
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Postby Cyberwaste » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:43 am

We just set the loot to group loot in hyjal, since the master looter doesn't really have time to loot everything between trash waves. When something drops, if you can't use it you just pass on it, but if you can use it you send a tell to whoever is deciding on the loot for that item. Once they decide who gets it (usually less than a minute), the person it's going to simply rolls need on it.

I really don't understand the purpose and advantage of a point-based loot system. Always used a simple loot council system and never had a problem with it. To me, point-based systems overly complicate the process of handing out purple text in a video game.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:51 am

Given the rules of your system and the nature of the raid, I highly recommend just figuring out who gets something when it drops before it does.

If you wipe, corpses despawn and loot goes away. Spending any time on loot distribution at all is bad. We've had this happen once, and the GMs did get the item to us, but better to not have to do it that way, I think.

We run with group loot, which makes life easier since ML is irritating, but more dangerous since roll boxes are distracting. In our raids I'm most likely to die after an epic drops during trash; it's something of a running joke.
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Postby Aleriya » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:57 pm

Corpses despawn not just when you wipe, but instantly once Jaina (or Thrall) dies. We had our first epic despawn on us about 20 seconds after it dropped =/
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Postby Ardraaken » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:19 am

We use a bid system for our loot drops normally with uncontested loot being given for a minimal DKP amount (either 1 or 2 DKP) but for Hyjal trash we simply set it to group loot then when an item drops members Need if it's for their main spec, Greed if it's for their off spec, or Pass if it's no use to them the winner gets the item for zero DKP. We've never had any problems (apart from one Rogue Needing and winning the Pepes Shroud of Pacification cos it had dodge and hit on it) and get plenty of epix from the trash, so much so that we've had about 4 Hammer of Judgement (3 in one night!), 3 Hellfire-Encased Pendants, 3 Choker of Serrated Blades, 2 Claw of Molten Fury, and 1 Fist of Molten Fury amongst others...

At the end of the day it's going to be down to what suits you and your guild best but as GM I've no issue doing it this way as my guys deserve some form of reward for all their hard work and they're all pretty dependable on knowing what they should/shouldn't Need or Greed on.
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Postby nicolax » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:31 am

we use a dkp system, i raid lead the raids every day and give master looter to another officer when we do mount hyjal ( dpser preferably :)). so he spends most of his time running around, looting the epics/marks/hod, and makes raid warnings when there is something to bid on. we blind bid via whispers, and he gives loot to the highest bidder.

so far it works well, no window popping on your screen, only a raid warning, and we make sure players knows beforehand what they need, so they don't go "hm, do i have a use for that... ?"

avoid the group loot at all cost, too distracting, prone to many errors...
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Re: Trash waves and loot

Postby Goldennox » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:22 am

Paksennarion wrote:Question for the folks in Hyjal.

I'm part of a raiding community on silver hand that just had it's first raiding group break into Hyjal, and there's currently a debate going on how to manage trash loot in the instance.

Basically, it's a whisper-bid system with multiple different tiers of bid. Top tier is "Shroud", if you bid this and you have the most points of all the Shroud bidders, you get the item at a cost of half your total points. Next tier is Standard, and everyone who bids Standard is asked to /roll 100; highest roll gets the item for 10 points. Bottom tier is Save, also 10 points but is a "give it to me instead of DEing it" tier.

The problem is, points are per-character, and earned over time. (2 for on-time, 1 for raid complete, 1 per half hour of raid time.) They're also transferrable between Charters (the individual raid groups), so raiders can sign up for any of the groups without losing points. The current group that just got into Hyjal doesn't believe that they can manage to process loot in the normal manner during the trash waves, and they want to change the system to use the Blizzard roller, with "Shroud" being a Need roll, and Standard/Save being Greed roll.

This makes sense to just about everyone, but there's concern that we'll get the "new raider with badge gear and 20 points beating the veteran raider with 200 points" problem cropping up more and more. A suggestion was to place a time limit on trash wave need/greed of a month or two, but some are saying that this is basically impossible.

So, to make a long story not any longer, how did all of you handle the trash loot in Hyjal when you were first progressing through, and when did you change back to your normal system, if you didn't use it all the way?

Any guidance on this would be extremely helpful. Thanks for reading. :)


Any loot system that needs to be described in three paragraphs is too much, imo. For us, our Loot Master nerfs her own DPS to run around, loot stuff, link it (which is annoying when I want something and I am tanking since I can't always whisper her and she doesn't read raid chat, lol) and then compare DKP with a paper list she has.

Easy, simple, fast, and we nerf one of our best warlocks for loot, gg.

Oh well, we made her tank Demonform Leo and she's doing Demonform Illidan too, so she's used to it :-)
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Postby Kay » Fri May 02, 2008 4:47 pm

One thing is for sure. As prot, I can't ML and tank at the same time.

Far too much stress and neither job gets done well.
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Re: Trash waves and loot

Postby Balsimar » Sat May 03, 2008 3:16 pm

Paksennarion wrote:The current group that just got into Hyjal doesn't believe that they can manage to process loot in the normal manner during the trash waves, and they want to change the system to use the Blizzard roller, with "Shroud" being a Need roll, and Standard/Save being Greed roll.


Per leftovers loot rules, a shroud goes to whomever has the most points, not whomever shrouds and wins a roll. You'll likely end up with people who should have won getting agitated and complaining when they lose a shroud to someone with half the points.

In an organization such as Leftovers, you cannot just change the rules to fit your own charter, without changing it for the rest of the organization.

Paksennarion wrote:So, to make a long story not any longer, how did all of you handle the trash loot in Hyjal when you were first progressing through, and when did you change back to your normal system, if you didn't use it all the way?


We reset our DKP for T6, so everyone started off at 0. We rolled to begin with, but once the first couple raids were done with, we went back to letting the points decide.

One suggestion is to make sure you leave loot on FFA, then just call it out and let people bid. The winner is then responsible for getting the item off the corpse. If you have a ninja issue, that will sort itself out in the end once you've kicked him from the raid and alerted the rest of Leftovers. :)

In all honesty, I'd recommend initiating a conversation with Dagris... the charter lead of dawnbreakers and friends. they've already been through this and had to work out dealing with hyjal loot in the LO system.
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Postby Balsimar » Sun May 04, 2008 8:52 am

I have to correct myself... Talked to my friend last night who raids with Dawnbreakers, apparently they ended up doing something similar with the in-game roll system.

I still recommend having a chat with Dagris or another of the charter leads to see exactly how they ended up handling it. :)
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Postby Mitton » Mon May 05, 2008 6:16 am

we use a loot council, but for trash drops, it goes to rolls for those who play the appropriate classes.

Personally what i'd like to see is a pre-arranged loot council. That could make it so it's like boss loot. The council could get lists of who wants what from trash and decide priorities as they see fit.

The thing that sparked this in me was a paranoia that a bad tankadin who raids once/2 weeks if that would get the HoJ over myself, a shaman or an spriest.

They'll all drop and most people will get their item eventually, but it's just a waste to toss an item to someone who doesn't consistently show up or who is performing badly
Nothing says pallatank like ADD!

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Postby sunburst » Wed May 28, 2008 12:31 pm

We do trash with group loot. Our DKP-genius wrote an auto-teller, everyone who wants the item whispers him and then the addon magically tells who's the lucky guy. Cant tell you more, I'm a total nubster when it comes to addons :) Also our officers advise not to pass on epics, if someone pretending on it, they just wait till "And the item goes to..." line, then pass/need accordingly. There are stickly situations in the Horde camp sometimes when combat splits and one half cant roll on another half's loot. We write a ticket to GMs if this happens.
Last edited by sunburst on Thu May 29, 2008 12:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby guillex » Wed May 28, 2008 12:34 pm

sunburst wrote:Our DKP-genius wrote an auto-teller, everyone who wants the item whispers him and then the addon magically tells who's the lucky guy. Cant tell you more, I'm a total nubster when it comes to addons :) Also our officers advise not to pass on epics, if someone pretending on it, they just wait till "And the item goes to..." line, then pass/need accordingly. There are stickly situations in the Horde camp sometimes when combat splits and one half cant roll on another half's loot. We write a ticket to GMs if this happens.


That's actually kinda cool, tbh.

But HOLY THREAD NECROMANCY BATMAN!
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Postby sunburst » Wed May 28, 2008 12:36 pm

I see dead people. And dead threads. They talk to me :shock:
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed May 28, 2008 12:43 pm

My guild uses zero-sum dkp, and group loot for hyjal. When an item pops the raid leader asks who wants it, just like a boss loot. A DEer will greed it, everyone that doesn't want it will pass and whoever wants just waits with the window open. He checks the competitors dkp through a mod that monitors it, and say who will get the loot. That person needs the item and the rest pass. DKP is charged as usual.
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