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Al'ar

A'lar, Void Reaver, Solarian, Kael'thas

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Postby Eneroth » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:30 pm

The way we do this fight now, and it works all the time is like this. We have two fury warriors and me on add duty. In phase one the fury warriors grab the adds, and bring them over to me, where I taunt the add off the warrior. I hold all the adds from phase1 on me, till phase 2, when phase 2 comes around. During this time we have a rogue who brings each add down to 10% health while I tank them all.

When phase 2 hits, the ranged dps target the mob I have target and blow it up, give the healers a second to get me to full, and do it again. Normaly have anywhere from 8 to 10 adds on me, so that drops Al'ar almost 30% health from the start. Then the fury warriors and I work on getting the adds from the metors, with me taunting any mobs off the fury warriors back on me as I bring them close to the wall. Once I am in position I call DPS in and the ranged take the adds down. We do this the whole fight, and bang Al'ar is toast.
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Postby YoYoMa » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:51 pm

I have some questions about tanking Al'ar, specifically picking him up in phase 2 after he does rebirth. The mechanics of this seem very odd and we've not really be able to pinpoint why he does.

One scenario is that he'll come out of rebirth and immediately start to bufett. In this case he won't move from the stop he pops up from. But what is wierd is that he'll bufett even if we have a tank on him clearly engaged and at the top of theat.

The other scenario is that he will pop out of rebirth and immediately take off after somebody. No bufett but in this case nobody is on top of him.

So I was just looking for thoughts, he just seems to be acting funny when he re-appears after the meteor.
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Postby Questioner » Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:14 pm

Steve wrote:Do adds killed in phase 2 while Alar is 'missing' as a result of a meteor/dive bomb still do damage to Alar?

I'm looking for 100% certainty and not someone's best guess. I'm wondering if anyone has taken the time to test this.


Well, I don't know, but I do know this.

While you are waiting for Al'ar to rebirth between phase 1 and 2, killing off the adds does NOT take down his health.
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Postby Tekkel » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:58 am

If he's up in the air, killed adds won't add damage done to alar.

We usually have 4 tanks. 3 on alar and me on adds. Adds are killed during p1 by the rogues with a cos rotation. during p2 I take up the adds with a taunt+AS and get them in the same place everytime. That way ranged dps is in the right pos and adds die 5-10 sec before alar goes up again.
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Postby Agarwaen » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:03 am

Al'ar seems to have some strange behaviour right now.
Some of his adds during P1 stayed at the MT on one of the platforms.
First it was just on my platform regardless if I am having RF on or off.
Then the other 2 MTs where affected by this two.
Also it seems like he is not rotating between the platforms.
In the beginning it was like Platform 1,2,3,4 and after that it varies like 1,4,1,2,4.
Very strange...

P2 was no problem when tanking all the adds with the help of 2-3 healers.
In some cases my paladin healer just picked the adds up and brought them to me..

And in the end it was a first kill for us (16/11/07).

Someone killed him this week too and can acknowledge the weird behaviours above?
Maybe the hotfix today addresses it..
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Postby Tiandelin » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:14 am

Killed him last night and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary.
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Postby Cimzar » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:43 am

We just did the fight last night, and we had the same issue with the adds being inconsistent. Sometimes they would come right down the ramps, other times they would stay up there on the a'lar tank for 10-15 seconds, etc.
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Postby Tiandelin » Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:08 am

Cimzar wrote:We just did the fight last night, and we had the same issue with the adds being inconsistent. Sometimes they would come right down the ramps, other times they would stay up there on the a'lar tank for 10-15 seconds, etc.


If the tank uses an AoE ability like demo shout or thunderclap just as the ember spawns, it will tend to stick to him. Healer aggro should eventually pull it off, or you can run close enough to use RD to pull it off. It is annoying and does throw your timing off, though.
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Postby Cimzar » Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:17 am

Not saying he didn't use one of those, but I couldn't see it from my vantage point. It was eventually healer aggro that pulled it down, so it may just be really bad luck on our part. We haven't experienced it this bad before, so it may just be a small difference that makes them 'stick' more often.

I even had one of them take a AS to the face, followed by a JoR and a RD before it finally noticed I was hitting it...
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Postby Blaen99 » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:45 am

Cimzar wrote:Not saying he didn't use one of those, but I couldn't see it from my vantage point. It was eventually healer aggro that pulled it down, so it may just be really bad luck on our part. We haven't experienced it this bad before, so it may just be a small difference that makes them 'stick' more often.

I even had one of them take a AS to the face, followed by a JoR and a RD before it finally noticed I was hitting it...


We had this problem a few times.

Have your healers stop using prayer of mending and earthshield.
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Postby Alienne » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:40 am

On the subject of gathering up the adds to kill in phase 2:

You can just AOE them.

It requires a little coordination from your dps, and a little bit of luck. You have to make sure the adds are all down to about the same amount of health--I'd say all within 5% of each other. Try to have one main target which is just slightly lower than the others, though.

When phase 2 starts, let your AOE people go nutz on them, while you carefully maneuver yourself so that your back is not facing a wall. The goal here is to get thrown all the way across the room. What will happen is that the first bird will explode, sending you flying while your AOE continues on the pack. If dps has been good about keeping things even, then the rest of the birds will die within the next second or so, exploding harmlessly with nobody near them.

The way that this can go wrong is if you resist the explosion--you won't get thrown, and you'll be very dead. You can minimize the chance of this happening by being sure to wear no fire resist, and avoid using fire resistance aura. Also, if your reflexes are quick, you can just bubble yourself when the first bird explodes.

Granted, I'm far from an expert on this fight, but we took down Al'ar for the first time last night using this strategy, and it worked like a charm.
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Postby Rasmfrackn » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:56 pm

Eneroth wrote:The way we do this fight now, and it works all the time is like this. We have two fury warriors and me on add duty. In phase one the fury warriors grab the adds, and bring them over to me, where I taunt the add off the warrior. I hold all the adds from phase1 on me, till phase 2, when phase 2 comes around. During this time we have a rogue who brings each add down to 10% health while I tank them all.

When phase 2 hits, the ranged dps target the mob I have target and blow it up, give the healers a second to get me to full, and do it again. Normaly have anywhere from 8 to 10 adds on me, so that drops Al'ar almost 30% health from the start. Then the fury warriors and I work on getting the adds from the metors, with me taunting any mobs off the fury warriors back on me as I bring them close to the wall. Once I am in position I call DPS in and the ranged take the adds down. We do this the whole fight, and bang Al'ar is toast.


Last night was our first night learning phase 2 (2nd night overall), and this is eventually what I found to work best for us as well. I had a feral druid up on the platforms with the tanks, who would smack the new ember a couple of times and then dive off in cat form to make sure they came down, though, because there was a LOT of errant healing aggro onto our tanks... the embers were running back and forth towards the ramp and then towards the next tank as ProMs and lifeblooms and earthshields procced early in their life.

On our best attempt, we had 6-7 birds stored up from phase 1, all somewhat low. (We killed the first 2 or 3 to keep it easier on my healer) We shifted all melee to alar and all ranged to my birds, and they blew up one after another pretty well. After that, it was very simple to go chase down the 2 new embers after each dive bomb myself, back them up, and let ranged do their thing. I did have some trouble getting them back into position because the rangies never actually stopped attacking, so I did blow a couple of people up, but I think I can lock that down well enough. :)

We were losing people, and eventually tanks, to other things, but that part went fairly well. I'm not sure how a method of "offtank the adds and just burn alar" would work for us, since we'd probably have about 25 embers up at the end of a 6 minute kill.

Anyway, more things I noticed...

1. During aforementioned "good" attempt, there was one dive bomb that didn't produce any embers. I got to throw up JoW on alar for that brief period... kinda nice.

2. We got our first tirisfalen ring on the way to alar last night (yay me) and that bumped my block value up to 593. That's about 50% blocked... so about 300-500 was getting through. At one point in phase 2, though, I started seeing full blocks, and the only debuff I saw on them was a demo roar from a feral. Does that mesh with anyone else's experience? I didn't see that with demo shout when an arms warrior with 5/5 imp demo was helping me during phase 1... Getting to full blocks with a simple debuff like that would be super sweet and make holding all the embers in p2 a lot more feasible. (No autoblocker here... yet)

3. I should know this, but apparently I don't. How does the dive bomb/meteor work exactly? Can you tell who it's going to target? When does the knockback happen? (immediately or after alar spawns back in)

4. Leaving an aggro-licious ranged attacker (for us it's a destro lock) salv-less for phase 1 really jacks up the threat ceiling for everyone in phase 2, assuming the taunt works. Then they blow shatter and run over to me, and i give 'em salv for p2. I suppose this might make the fight significantly shorter than 6 minutes in p2, meaning less birds...
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Postby Steve » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:35 am

Rasmfrackn wrote:At one point in phase 2, though, I started seeing full blocks, and the only debuff I saw on them was a demo roar from a feral. Does that mesh with anyone else's experience?


Not really, but I have a hard time maintaining a high block value, high spell damage, and 102.4% avoidance. We kill the adds as they spawn so generating large amounts of threat quickly is important.

Rasmfrackn wrote:How does the dive bomb/meteor work exactly? Can you tell who it's going to target? When does the knockback happen? (immediately or after alar spawns back in)


Dive bomb appears to target a random player. I haven't been able to predict who it targets. I just draw a mental circle around the raid and stand in the middle. Spam tab and fire off your shield (or move first and fire if you are too close to the dive bomb spot).

The knockback occurs as alar spawns back in. It's a few seconds after the adds spawn, so it's important to not be within 10 yards or so of the dive bomb spot.
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Postby YoYoMa » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:32 am

we've been focusing on other fights recently but are finally going back to finish up al'ar now. I just wanted to hear some feedback from people that attempt the "tank all adds in p2" method.

My thought was to kill the first 3 or so rounds of embers as most people do, I'll pick them up after meteor, ranged kill them and repeat. After that though I want to have hunters just MD multi-shot the adds to me and I just aoe tank them all. The entire raid can just focus on the boss and ignore adds.

My block value is at about 660 and that's with about 15% dodge, 15% parry, around 17k armor and should be around 18k buffed still. Nerfed a few stats to ge the block value but still pretty decent.

The way I figure it you get at most 13 rounds of adds because of the 10 min enrage. Thats 26 birds and we're going to kill off the first 6 or so. So at most I'll get 20. If I say about 350 damage per add that's ~700 added every 45 seconds (every meteor). So basically I'll climb up to a max of about 7000 and that is assuming 0 dodge or parry or miss (just factoring for worst case).

I'm pretty confident our ranged will add in an extra 6% damage per 45 seconds to compensate for not killing birds.

Any thoughts by anybody that has done this method? What your healers think? How it panned out towards the end? Just wondering. Thanks
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Postby Rasmfrackn » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:05 am

I just bought my autoblocker last night (putting me at 668 myself) so I'm considering this some more. From my limited exposure, it seems viable as long as you have a good way to wrangle the embers late in the fight. Misdirection is a 2 minute cooldown so you'd probably need 5 hunters to keep it up, or another tank grabbing them and dragging them close enough for RD.

Dive bomb is every 30 seconds now, right? The Afterlife/Reckoning video posted down below shows a timer of 53 seconds. That's a big difference in figuring out worst-case ember count.
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