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Al'ar

A'lar, Void Reaver, Solarian, Kael'thas

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Postby Eneroth » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:01 am

I was thinking of perhaps making a macro for this would help pick up the adds fast for phase 1 and phase 2. I wanted something along the lines of:

1) targeting the adds.
2) casting Captain America shield.
3) cast righteous
4) judge
5) consecration
6) taunt

Something along those lines.. I am at work and am haveing a brain fart at the moment. I want to get this mod down bad, and I think that if I can grab the adds faster, then I should be able to lock them down. We seem to loose it at around 30% of phase2, when we just get over run with adds. I was able to talk the person that handles the adds into giving me a shot at this, it's hard since we are low on healers for this fight and I have to slap on my healing gear to help out.
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Postby sahiel » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:48 am

Had my first try at the Al'ar adds last night and it went pretty well, got him to 60% odd in p2. The trouble I was having was aggroing the adds in p1, our dps wasn't killing them before the next add had spawned and so if there was an unfortunately timed demo shout/TC they aggroed the Al'ar tank rather than coming down the ramp. And even if not, they built up threat against all the casters the entire trip to the bottom of the ramp, sometimes to the degree that it was tough to keep it off them.

Any ideas on how to try and get them to me more surely? We tried having a hunter MD them to me but there were some problems with them losing LOS on the adds or not being able to get it to start with when they spawned.

Still, a very fun fight regardless :)
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Postby Rhaenys » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:06 am

The way we do this fight is this: We run with 2 wars, 2 ferals, and me.

during P1, I pick up the adds and then bring them to our add tank (war with lots of BV). If the adds come down the ramp, I AS and JoR them. If they stay on the platforms, I just RD them, and they come down. The add tank and a rogue get the adds to about 10% or so. And we save the adds till P2. We save 8-12 adds depending on how slow we go, and how many flame quills Al'ar does.

P2, our locks SoC and Mages start to AoE the birds, the add tank shield walls. We also SS him just in case. Instantly Al'ar is at 75-80%. After a meteor, myself and a feral get the adds. I usually cover half the room, him the other. Once we get the adds, we take them to the add tank again, and he tanks them the whole fight. They despawn when Al'ar dies.
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Postby Svest » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:21 am

We just got him last night and this is how we do it.

We have 3 tanks on Alar and just me on the adds. We kill the first couple adds in phase 1 and save up the rest for phase 2.

My healer is a holy pally who helps me pick up the adds when I get resisted. He just taunts them and brings them to my consecrate. This usually only happens once or twice in the whole fight.

Near the end of phase 1 our melee dps comes over and gets all the adds down to about 20% but leaves them alive for phase 2.

Once we get to phase 2, I put my back to a wall and the ranged dps gun down the adds that are left on me one at a time. They are all dead before the first meteor.

After that, I just run around collecting adds. Most of our dps concentrates just on attacking Alar. 2-3 ranged DPSers keep working on the adds though. This is just so they don't add up too fast and I become a healing burden. Usually enough to just kill 1 add between meteors.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:32 pm

Wait a sec.

I was told that killing the adds from Phase 1 during Phase 2 does no damage to Al'ar and that this was a recent change to the fight.

Are you guys saying that the above is not the case and everything still works the way it used to?
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Postby Rhaenys » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:16 pm

Killin the P1 adds in P2 worked for us 2 weeks ago. We didnt do TK this week, but will prob in next raid week. We heard that as well, but tried it anyhow. Just got to be sure not to kill them when Al'ar is goin to meteor.
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Postby Svest » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:40 pm

Dragonzbane wrote:Wait a sec.

I was told that killing the adds from Phase 1 during Phase 2 does no damage to Al'ar and that this was a recent change to the fight.

Are you guys saying that the above is not the case and everything still works the way it used to?


Worked for us last night.
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Postby Viskahn » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:50 pm

today i did a'lar for the first time and after a few wipes and varying tactics it went like this:

phase 1 - i stayed on position 4 (the two MTs were having trouble rotating all the platforms by themselves, so i was assigned to hold #4 and they rotated the other 3), we had a feral druid picking up the adds. on a note here, if you are assigned to be on #1 or #4 after a'lar goes airborn, you can bubble and run up early to get there in time to avoid any flame buffets.

phase 2 - i AS'd the adds as they spawned and tanked them down, basically. i was using fire res aura initially, but decided that taking the explosions so i could get extra mana was worth switching to devotion. i had to use quite a lot of mana pots even so, and at one point even LoH'd myself from oom back up to 900.

for the previous tries it had been me picking up one add and the feral taking the other. this just didnt work properly - i couldnt really avengers shield them, because the feral wouldve taunted and then i would "steal" his mobs, and my own taunt was as usual, very unreliable.

everyone decided that the final way that we did it (with me taking both adds) was definitely the best, and congratulated me on a good job, which was very gratifying after people complaining about me and the druid on previous attempts, as well as the general level of scepticism about tankadins in the guild.


anyways, whilst doing it this way, mana WAS an issue, but with careful management and planning in advance, it was quite doable - i had around 275 spelldamage and 6k mana buffed. no shadowpriest or shamans in the group for extra regen, it was just a matter of prudent use of SoW when i had a suitable threat lead, and potting early. there was one add spawn where i couldnt afford an avengers shield, but i had foreseen that and had a hunter ready to misdirect the adds onto me on that occassion, which also works just fine.
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Postby Eloff » Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:12 am

Here's an idea I posted on my guild forums... just wanted to get some experienced eyes on this one.

Eloff wrote:Each add hit me for anywhere from 292 to 646 in my full +block value set. I could easily take 10x that damage, but I can't handle 20x that damage without some more +block value gear. (Although, once I drop below 35% health, I only take between 10 to 250 damage on a blocked hit. The problem is really the unblocked hits below 35% where I take 650-900 per hit. Too many of those can finish me off.)

That being said...

I've got a new idea. Let me tank all the adds from phase one into the phase two transition. I'm 90% sure that if I position myself just right, I can force the fire explosion to toss me up and onto one of the side ramps. I think the adds will fly toward whoever is on top AOE aggro until I land. After I land, they'll come back for me. I can simply jump down and run back into position to take another fire blast. As long as I'm not getting tossed into a flame quill, this will give us quite a bit of time to AOE and burn them all down in a relatively safe manner. We just have to keep their path to me clear, so we can kill them as they kite. They are stunnable, so the rogues / dps warriors can also stun some that are kiting towards me and cloak of shadows to burn those down as well.

Disadvantages:

Requires spam healing on Eloff just prior to an explosion. Each explosion does 7-9k damage which is slightly more than half my health in a block value set. HoT's work really well here.

Requires careful timing and DPS control to avoid the flame quill.

Requires careful postioning and raid awareness of the 'kite path'.

Benefits:

Allows for massive AOE damage on large packs of birds.

Allows for melee DPS to stay more involved.

Takes 20% off Al'ars health at the start of phase 2.

Keeps the adds under control.

Doesn't require Eloff to be killed on every attempt. (Giving me a soulstone, and burning them ALL down to die at the same time is an alternate method. Alternate 2 requires a warrior shield wall on cooldown which doesn't allow for back-to-back attempts)

Positions me in a better spot to taunt new adds. However, I will still need an assistant 'off-tank' to help gather new spawns.


Discuss.

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Postby Tiandelin » Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:27 pm

We just attempted and killed Al'ar for the first time tonight. Phase 1 was mostly a matter of the Al'ar MTs (we only had two) working out platform details and eventually using a hunter with pack up as an escort to the ramps if they were out of place due to a middle platform flame quill. I just AS'd the adds as they came down the ramps, and our melee made quick work of them. Being in a group with a shadow priest helped a LOT here.

We tried various tactics in phase 2 before my raid leader finally let me just offtank all the adds and let all our dps burn down Al'ar. It was amazing how much of a difference it made. We went from 20% at berserk to getting him down several minutes in advance, and the healers on me were remarking about how easy it was to keep me up... well, whenever I wasn't accidentally standing in a flame patch anyway. Had maybe 14-16 adds on me at the end.

Stats-wise, I have maybe 15k health in my block gear when raid-buffed without a flask, but my block value is 710 and my block chance is slightly over 46%. Along with Redoubt, and confirmed by WWS, I have about an 8% chance to get an unblocked hit against an ember. Even with over a dozen adds on me, I didn't come close to dying unless I was standing in a flame patch. AD did save me a couple times there.

Overall, it seemed a lot easier just to offtank them instead of running around and holding them against our aggro monkeys. It also vastly increased the dps on Al'ar, despite adds not dying. As for picking them up, we had a holy pally with RF stand near me, which helped a lot when adds spawned outside of taunt range. The only things I really had to worry about were flame patches spawning under me, keeping all the birds in front of me, and taunting the new embers. Easy stuff.
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Postby Anubisknight » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:22 am

We attempted A'lar for the first time yesterday - with only 20 minutes left for the raid to end. We had a bug with one of our druid tanks though - even though he was on the edge of the platform, we were taking damage. Has anyone else experienced this problem? We tried all different angles of facing, but it just didnt work - 4 attempts in all.
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Postby Maalev » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:36 am

Our guild handles things a little differently, mostly because the MT / RL has some funny ideas about how things work.

We roll with four tanks-- x2 prot warrior, x1 feral druid and x1 prot paladin.

For P1, the feral takes position 1 and 3; one of the prot warriors takes position 4 and I got stuck with position 2. The other prot warrior handles the P1 adds. He usually has a dps warrior and a rogue or two also helping on the adds. They kill them as they come (each is actually killed, or very close to it, before the next makes it down the ramp) until Alar hits about 20-30% when they start saving them for P2.

During P2 the position 1 and 4 tanks are on Alar and the add warrior and I are on adds. I've found that the best way to handle it is to AS to pick up both then have the warrior pick up one off of me to be dps'd. We've designated a 4-6 person "team" that does the dps on the adds while everyone else stays on Alar. After the warrior's add is down he comes over and picks up mine so that I'm free to run around and AS after the next meteor.

For the last 10-20% I usually just pick up all the adds and hold them so all the dps can go all out on Alar. During this part I've had anywhere from 4-8 or 9 adds on me when Alar dies.

Not every AS hits on the P2 adds... this is when your raid has to be on the ball. Usually the other tank can pick up the one I missed. I've also had pally healers RF and bring them to my consecrate. Even been MD'd a few times too. Mostly, those last few options are necessary once you get more than 4 adds on you. It is a bit too difficult on me, rather my one healer, to go running around trying to cast AS with four or more mobs beating on me.


@Eloff
I've got a new idea. Let me tank all the adds from phase one into the phase two transition. I'm 90% sure that if I position myself just right, I can force the fire explosion to toss me up and onto one of the side ramps. I think the adds will fly toward whoever is on top AOE aggro until I land. After I land, they'll come back for me. I can simply jump down and run back into position to take another fire blast. As long as I'm not getting tossed into a flame quill, this will give us quite a bit of time to AOE and burn them all down in a relatively safe manner. We just have to keep their path to me clear, so we can kill them as they kite. They are stunnable, so the rogues / dps warriors can also stun some that are kiting towards me and cloak of shadows to burn those down as well.


If you stick your back to a wall, the explosion won't throw you... well, at all, and all the mobs stay on you. In any event, even if you get punted the rest still come for you as long as you had aggro on them to start with. For that matter, you shouldn't be trying to get punted at all (keep your back to a wall) since you'll take fall damage and be out of your healer's range.
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Postby Lieris » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:06 pm

We killed Alar for the first time today, it only took us a day prior to practice before that. Tankadins are a huge boon on this fight, I just stacked block rating and block value which meant I could hold a shed load of adds! We had at the entrance an imp, a shaman, a paladin with improved righteous fury and the melee DPS at the doorway. When Alar reached 50% the melee starts burning down the adds ready for phase 2. Once the adds are dead that removes about 20%~ of Alar's life and then the adds start coming much quicker (which the DPS ignore). If I didn't get aggro from misdirects, earth shield or POM then usually the paladin next to me would which makes it easy to taunt off.

It gets a little rough towards the end but if you burn your cool-downs and trinkets it's not too stressful. I think it's easily one of the more enjoyable fights I have tanked in and one where I was able to really show off! XD

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Postby Steve » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:05 am

Do adds killed in phase 2 while Alar is 'missing' as a result of a meteor/dive bomb still do damage to Alar?

I'm looking for 100% certainty and not someone's best guess. I'm wondering if anyone has taken the time to test this.
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Postby Werna » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:51 pm

how much bv and br u had on this fight lieris? :)
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