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A'lar, Void Reaver, Solarian, Kael'thas

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Postby jere » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:25 pm

Jarkeld wrote:the sawblades fire in a cone, if the warlocks stand a bit to the side and banish as the mobs run by, they'll be fine.


We actually tried this, but they still end up getting owned as soon as the demons get into LoS it seems. I will check their stamina/health levels next time, but locks are typically known for higher levels of health anyways, unless things have changed.
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Postby Worldie » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:57 pm

Well if your casters are still going around with 5k HP buffed, theres something wrong. Having 8-9k hp buffed makes them quite hard to die from one hit.
Even place imps or warriors with CS in party with low-sta people.
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Postby Rainge » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:12 pm

You could always BoP the locks on the pull if they're dying too early.
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Postby jere » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:30 pm

Worldie wrote:Well if your casters are still going around with 5k HP buffed, theres something wrong. Having 8-9k hp buffed makes them quite hard to die from one hit.
Even place imps or warriors with CS in party with low-sta people.


The problem is it isn't one hit, nor is their stamina low. There are typically 2 mechanics and 1-2 smiths. On a typical pull, someone dies between our warlocks and mages. In the span of like 4 seconds, one of them will take around 10-15k dmg. Pretty much only preemptive healing seems to keep them up and they have 10k+ buffed health.

In one parse where one of our better geared warlock's died, he took:

Code: Select all
03:33'48.726   Crystalcore Mechanic's Saw Blade hits Sunn for 1981
03:33'48.929   Sunn is afflicted by Saw Blade
03:33'49.718   Crystalcore Mechanic's Saw Blade hits Sunn for 2770
03:33'50.101   Sunn is afflicted by Saw Blade
03:33'50.539   Sunn gains Devotion Aura
03:33'50.711   Crystalcore Mechanic's Saw Blade dots Sunn for 692 Physical damage
03:33'50.914   Crystalcore Mechanic's Saw Blade hits Sunn for 1983
03:33'51.648   Tempest-Smith's Shell Shock hits Sunn for 3516 Fire damage
03:33'51.695   Sunn is afflicted by Shell Shock
03:33'51.711   Crystalcore Mechanic's Saw Blade dots Sunn for 685 Physical damage
03:33'52.921   Crystalcore Mechanic's Saw Blade dots Sunn for 691 Physical damage
03:33'53.039   Crystalcore Mechanic's Saw Blade hits Sunn for 2173
03:33'53.265   Sunn dies


That particular scenario was 14491 dmg over 4.5s of time.

The only way we found we could keep them up was with pre-emptive healing as reactive healing wouldn't cut it, but in order to do that we had to have a healer in range, and they would usually get owned instead.

I asked why it took so long (4s) to cast banish/sheep and they said the sawblades and other damage were interrupting their casts.

Obviously we have something set up wrong in how we do it, but I wouldn't be so quick to criticize our HP pools, as our warlocks typically have decent health pools. The mages need work sometimes, but the warlocks are pretty good.

So what does one do to keep all 3-4 mobs from tag team killing our CC'ers before the CC goes off? We try hiding behind walls and LoS, but they still seem to pick off 1-2 before we get all our CC up.

EDIT:

Rainge wrote:You could always BoP the locks on the pull if they're dying too early.


Thanks, that is actually a great idea. Thanks for the constructive thought there. It will be interesting to time so that we get the locks with BoP, get to the healer/tank spots and pull within 10s, but it will be at least something we can try. I appreciate it.
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Postby neokai » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:05 pm

No one mentioned it so far, but BoP removes the sawblade debuff. Dwarfs can also remove the debuff with their racial.
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Postby Afraithe » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:18 am

Seems quite simple to me, he died cause mob was not banished, 4 seconds alive is way to much, banish has a 1.5sec cast time, have backup locks also putting banish on the mobs, it simply has to stick the first cast, or its a possible wipe. If they keep getting interrupted, stick a paladin in their group, (imp) concentration aura. Priests shield them before pull etc.

Players assigned to CC should only focus on CC, and I mean only, as in 0 dps in this case, it is more important than anything else.
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Postby jere » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:45 am

Afraithe wrote:Seems quite simple to me, he died cause mob was not banished, 4 seconds alive is way to much, banish has a 1.5sec cast time, have backup locks also putting banish on the mobs, it simply has to stick the first cast, or its a possible wipe. If they keep getting interrupted, stick a paladin in their group, (imp) concentration aura. Priests shield them before pull etc.

Players assigned to CC should only focus on CC, and I mean only, as in 0 dps in this case, it is more important than anything else.


They weren't trying to dps that I saw, they were sitting there waiting behind a wall to CC. It was just that the CC owned them as soon as they got into LoS.

I think our problem was not having backup locks on them then. He was complaining about pushback from the the damage so he wasn't able to get the banish off in time, though 4s seems long (but he did take quite a few hits, so it is possible I guess).

Thanks for the tips, I will see about having them pre-shielded and maybe a pally for concentration aura as well.
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Postby Eliane » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:51 am

BoP the mages sheeping. It helpsa bit :D
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Postby Watts » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:54 pm

Pull with synchronized banishes.
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Postby Lollore » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:54 pm

Trevize wrote:A quick side note. When you AOE tank the birds in Alar's room....the silence effect is cleansible so pay your friendly paladin friends to chain cleanse you to make easy tanking for yourself =)

But the trash in VR room....just everyone spread out and stay back until all the cc has it under control. Even then...spread out!


Can you easily aoe tank the birds? As we do it now we assign a warrior to each and have them tank each one.. should I offer to aoe tank against a corner as long as I get spam healed/cleansed?
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Postby PsiVen » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:26 pm

Lollore wrote:
Trevize wrote:A quick side note. When you AOE tank the birds in Alar's room....the silence effect is cleansible so pay your friendly paladin friends to chain cleanse you to make easy tanking for yourself =)

But the trash in VR room....just everyone spread out and stay back until all the cc has it under control. Even then...spread out!


Can you easily aoe tank the birds? As we do it now we assign a warrior to each and have them tank each one.. should I offer to aoe tank against a corner as long as I get spam healed/cleansed?


We have a hunter misdirect the first pack to me in the hall, and I consecrate while running around the corner before they can silence me. DPS kills the falconer first and by then I've gotten a couple consecrates in through the silence spam to hold them. The second pack can be facepulled and brought to the inside corner right there, but it works better to treat it the same as the first (which you can't do that way lest you aggro the other pack).
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Postby Warrender » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:00 am

Lollore wrote:Can you easily aoe tank the birds?


You can AOE tank them but not easily. :x
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Postby YoYoMa » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:26 am

Regarding VR's trash I think the only tricky one is the first pull that you need to grab while the pat is going back and forth.

We have a hunter MD to the MT who is standing back in the room that leads up to KT. In the other little room leading to VR we have the warlocks stand out of LoS so that they don't get hit. As soon as the demons run past them they banish and never take one blade.

Mage obviously chain sheeps. But we have the whole raid in the other room so that should a sawblade pop very few people are affected by it. Once the big guy is down, we kill the sheeped target keeping him stunlocked. Then each demon.

Then do the same for the pat (only use 2 sheep) and then once you are in you are set, other than dealing with 10 more minutes of useless trash.

***

As for the bird packs, I typically body pull and lay a concecrate down at the doorway. Two warriors are there to peel off the two main guys and the birds all fly through the concecration. Then they do that kick back and send me flying to the back of that room in the corner. Healers all stand in the middle so that they are away from the silence and i just sit there concecrating them all while the two main adds are taken care of. Then the raid comes to help me out. Works like a charm every time.
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Postby Zalaria » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:33 am

Warrender wrote:
Lollore wrote:Can you easily aoe tank the birds?


You can AOE tank them but not easily. :x


It isn't THAT hard to AOE tank them, I do it as holy spec every clear (read: no BoSanc, no Holy Shield, but almost full Kara tank gear). Just get spam healed and spam cleansed. The healers can focus on you since the elf tanks aren't taking that much damage.
Last edited by Zalaria on Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Worldie » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:34 am

Lollore wrote:Can you easily aoe tank the birds? As we do it now we assign a warrior to each and have them tank each one.. should I offer to aoe tank against a corner as long as I get spam healed/cleansed?

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/7703 ... ingea8.jpg


The hard thing is getting them into the corner, be sure to body/avengershield pull them, lay a consecration somewhere where they must pass, then its just spamming consecration/holy shield whenever you arent silenced (i forced one paladin to chaincleanse me tbh)
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