Single Tank Void Reaver?

A'lar, Void Reaver, Solarian, Kael'thas

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Postby Worldie » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:42 am

Taking crushings on VR is fine, just don't do my error and dont go in as crittable :(
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Caelia » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:56 am

Worldie wrote:Taking crushings on VR is fine, just don't do my error and dont go in as crittable :(

lol, yea i went in uncrittable, however i got the vr bracers last night so im now uncrushable in all the gear i want to wear :D i think i only got crush when hs was down for a brief seconds when i let the consc cooldown fall to close.
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Postby jere » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:00 pm

Personally, I take crushings on VR on purpose sometimes if my mana looks low and my mana pots/dark runes are on cooldown. Just have to make sure my health is high before I do :)
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Postby xyzor » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:58 pm

We downed him last night with 4 tanks, though only 2 of us ever got aggro. I held him to about 35% remaining, then the prot warrior got him for 1 knockback, and then I got him back for the rest of the fight. We also had reasonably fast DPS, with just over 2.5 mins remaining before enrage. I sit with about 405 spell dmg unbuffed, fwiw.
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Postby Melathys » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:14 pm

I tanked for the first time tonight. Held him for about 95% of the fight. I lost him briefly a couple times, but quickly had hate back. At 20% I popped wings and went all out. We were about a minute ahead of the enrage timer when we dropped him. ie, I started and finished the fight as the current tank.

Fun fight. First couple times I went in with my normal tanking set with about 350 spell dmg. The third time I played with my gear, made a new set for 501 spell dmg. Lost some health in the conversion, but this guy hits like a girl anyway, lol.

I expect next time to bring a flask of blinding light and not lose hate at all. :)

jere wrote:Personally, I take crushings on VR on purpose sometimes if my mana looks low and my mana pots/dark runes are on cooldown. Just have to make sure my health is high before I do :)


I did that on Curator last night, I went probably 75% of the fight w/out holy shield up trying to take dmg to regain mana...was still popping pots. Think Im gonna use that above threat set for kara and below from now on.
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Postby Melathys » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:28 pm

oh. Do free action potions prevent knockbacks? I realize they stop knock downs (reading hyjal trash threads).
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Postby Worldie » Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:53 pm

No, knockbacks and knockdowns arent same thing. First is just a "forced movement", second is a stun.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Korath » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:12 am

Guides 1st time doing VR last night, got him down 2nd time.

I started and kept him for 4 knockbacks, was using Judged crusader, Spell DMG flask, spell food, wizard oil, wings every 2min and destruction pot every time it was up.

I have crappy spell dmg tho (200ish unbuffed), with some of the insane spell dmg stuff people have on here with a shammy and ret pally in group it should be possible to keep him for quite awhile :)
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Postby Worldie » Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:30 pm

Menaged to single tank him today, but well, i had 600ish unbuffed spelldam, elemental shaman in party, crusader judged, and abuse of Wings, Icon of Silver Crescent and Tome of Fiery Redemption. I lost him twice for a couple of seconds, he went both times back on me at the first judgement.
Was quite funny at the start when i popped wings and icon toghether with the tome proc, i was going at 2700 TPS *_*
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Myotis » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:11 pm

I tanked him from 100% to 0% last night. I also had Tome of Fiery Redemption. I used flask of blinding light, spell damage food and had a ret pal in my group.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:35 am

Phaex wrote:It is impossible.
I'll explain why.


http://wowwebstats.com/tihfzb3w56h3u?s=6615-6937

Woo. 100% - 0%, with no loss of aggro.

Had a resto shaman in the party, but:
- forgot to quaff my BL flask
- we don't roll with a retadin
- the warrior was getting all the misdirects

I think it's all about timing additional shield tosses during pounding. Wings, IotSC, Destro pots and Al'ar's trinket are crazy for burst aggro.
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Postby Rasmfrackn » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:17 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:
Phaex wrote:It is impossible.
I'll explain why.


http://wowwebstats.com/tihfzb3w56h3u?s=6615-6937

Woo. 100% - 0%, with no loss of aggro.

Had a resto shaman in the party, but:
- forgot to quaff my BL flask
- we don't roll with a retadin
- the warrior was getting all the misdirects

I think it's all about timing additional shield tosses during pounding. Wings, IotSC, Destro pots and Al'ar's trinket are crazy for burst aggro.


It's technically not impossible with even very low amounts of spelldamage... you just need to avoid every knock away and the fight becomes a pure tank and spank without a gimmick, even.

You ate 7 knocks and avoided 8 of them. Tanking 100% with that is still pretty impressive.

... as I suspected, you took most of your knockaways earlier in the fight, where the raw # loss is less, though.

Knockaways:
hit
hit
hit
avoid
avoid
hit
avoid
hit
hit
avoid
avoid
avoid
avoid
avoid
hit
(dead VR here, 6 seconds after last knock... but you did have aggro after it)

Adding up all your threat sources including self healing and SA, I count about 353526 threat, over 5:18 (318 seconds), giving you 1111 average TPS. Awesome. :)

Looking at your threat ramp based on that average TPS and the knockaway outcomes, your threat ramp looks like this:
0
24442
42774
56522
66834
91276
115718
111230
135672
126196
119089
143531
167973
192415
216857
241299 (before last knockaway)
180974 (after last knockaway)

However, your worst-case threat is much lower... 2.5x lower, actually. If you ate every knockaway, you'd end up like this:

0
24442
42774
56522
66834
74567
80367
84718
87980
90427
92262
93639
94671
95445
96026
96461 (before last knockaway)
72346 (after last knockaway)

I noticed that your knockaways were coming every 22 seconds, not every 30 seconds, in case anyone was wondering.

Anyway, there's as much luck as anything else to tanking VR 100-0. :)

Heck, if I just rearrange your knockaways into 8 avoids and then 7 hits at the end (same avoidance %), your threat looks like this:

0
24442
48884
73326
97768
122210
146652
171094
195536
171094
152763
139014
128702
120969
115169
110818 (before last knockaway)
83114 (after last knockaway)

1111 TPS is highly respectable, though. (And no MDs makes it easy to calculate. :) )
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Postby Hankthetank » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:29 pm

agnara wrote:I took a random wws report i found, and looked at the total dmg the top dps did.
the top dps is a rogue who did 360 000 dmg.
rogues got a 0.8 threat multiplier to their attacks, so that dmg translates to 290 000 threat. With the effective threat sealing around 250 000 tp (2.5 times the tank's max threat).

If the rogue doesn't pay attention he will pull aggro at some time. but if he do pay attention he could start feinting.




Just as a reference, Rogue's base multiplier for threat is 0.71, not 0.8:

http://thottbot.com/s21184

360,000 dmg is 255,600 base threat, or 178,920 total threat with BoSalv. With the 4:31 fight duration, you're looking at roughly 660 TPS. It won't be easy, but it's certainly doable, especially at the gear level of that raid.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:55 pm

Rasmfrackn wrote:lots of words


Wow, quite an analysis!

We went in again last night -- I got a pair of Wrynn's and stuffed it full of 8 dodge gems, and wore the Kz Dodge boots as well. So I'm rolling around 28% dodge and around 650 SD.

The GL is calling for misdirects on me before we start the fight and I say, "last week may have been a fluke; misdirect the 2ndary tank plx."

He says, "nah we should be fine."

...

There were very few people alive at the end of last night's kill. ><

(It was kind of a crappy night all around -- lots of people dead on Al'ar; we were down to one tank who had popped Shield wall, with most of the DPS dead, and Al'ar at 3% and healers entirely OOM. So I popped wings and a destro pot and killed one of the adds that I'd been tanking for the last five minutes. I died in the resulting blast, but so did Al'ar.)

(Stories are fun)

(So are parenthesis)
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Postby Gracerath » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:57 am

I still haven't managed to hold him for 100% of the fight :( My best so far was up to like 56% and then it ping ponged back and forth through all the tanks for the rest of the fight. My boss tank gear is only about 60ish less spell power than my threat gear lately, I wonder if I'd do better since it has more overall avoidance than my threat gear, to help me potentially avoid more of the knockbacks. I want to tank him 100% at least once before we give up those zones for good!
Bye space sword!
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