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Serpentshrine Cavern - Lady Vashj

Hydross, Lurker, Leotheras, Fathom-Lord, Tidewalker, Vashj

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Postby spiky_porcupine » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:11 pm

I had an idea on getting aggro on the Striders. Basically same strat as Murlocs, and ask your healers not to top you off before the Naga spwns, and just heal yourself. It helped me gain aggro on the Nagas about 70% of the times, though sometimes other healers still grab aggro after a holy light & flash of light. Has anyone else tried this to avoid stair healers getting one shotted randomly?
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Postby Dazhbog » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:28 pm

Alright, so we moved the naga tanking spot back to the middle. A big problem we had tonight was striders coming straight up into the naga tanking group, and our pickups on the striders are getting a lot better, hence the change.

This fight is a complete pain in the ass ><
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Postby Strom » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:10 am

spiky_porcupine wrote:I had an idea on getting aggro on the Striders. Basically same strat as Murlocs, and ask your healers not to top you off before the Naga spwns, and just heal yourself. It helped me gain aggro on the Nagas about 70% of the times, though sometimes other healers still grab aggro after a holy light & flash of light. Has anyone else tried this to avoid stair healers getting one shotted randomly?


Why not have a holy paladin in some PvP gear heal up top and make sure he doesnt have slav on. That way you always have a predicable target to taunt from.
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Postby spiky_porcupine » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:46 am

[quote="Strom"][quote="spiky_porcupine"]I had an idea on getting aggro on the Striders. Basically same strat as Murlocs, and ask your healers not to top you off before the Naga spwns, and just heal yourself. It helped me gain aggro on the Nagas about 70% of the times, though sometimes other healers still grab aggro after a holy light & flash of light. Has anyone else tried this to avoid stair healers getting one shotted randomly?[/quote]

Why not have a holy paladin in some PvP gear heal up top and make sure he doesnt have slav on. That way you always have a predicable target to taunt from.[/quote]

I wanted to do that actually, but we are now down to only one holy paladin in our guild and he heals down bottom while the shaman & priest are up to. Maybe next time our pali healers will log on and I'll tell them to do that.
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Postby Diocaska » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:29 am

spiky_porcupine wrote:Hello~ so yesterday was our guild's first real long night attempt at Vashj for 3 hours straight. Before it was all like 20-30 min for people to see phase two really. It went really good as we got to phase 3 a couple times. A couple problems we had though.

1. On our last few attempts I noticed the Naga spwning beside a person or our kiters and 1 shots him/her before I could even react, that can't be helped based on what I read thus far? We ping and call out whether naga is north south east or west

2. Striders spawning too far from kiter to get it. So we basically in the end had 2 locks & a frost mage kiting, and they're spread out to pick it up. Works well on 1st strider, but when at 2nd and 3rd strider it starts getting hectic

3. How many striders should be up when we go to phase 3? I hear it should only be one, but our 2 attempts we had 3 nagas which I tank and 2 striders at about 90% and 40% HP. Nagas were about 50%, 100%, and 25% or something like that.


Tanks wise we have druid & me tanking Vashj. Phase two I pick up nagas and pull it to druid for her to taunt it off me so I can pick next one up. When we are passing last core, I taunt all the nagas off her so she picks up Vashj. Healers we have 7, and it was not a problem at all. DPS on naga were good until we either get a bad fear from strider or a person or two shots down so melee has to go help loose elementals. DPS wise, best attempt the 1st Strider & naga were downed right before 2nd one spawned with no leaks and #1 & #2 cores downed properly. Average attempts we down the first strider about 5-8 seconds after 2nd spawns.

Any suggestions to help us and how does that sound so far, or need more info~?


1, I'm not actually sure if dps/healers just usually position on the centeral ring, reducing the chance of a strider popping on top of them. Not sure here tbh.

2, Your hunter could be positioning in the middle, thus making it easier for him to pick up the strider regardless of position.
Your raiders can also benefit by having netherweave nets. Note: Do NOT drop the net on the strider next to a core. You will risk the chance of it cleaving any healers/generator people posted there.

3, Your dps is slacking. Can't say much more than this. We don't have more than a single strider up at a time, but we usually end up with quite a few Naga, ~3.
We usually expect a wipe if we get two striders. Its possible, but you really start straining people at this point.


The Vashj game is all about phase 2. If your dps is doing its job, then you should kill her. The first time we got her into p3 cleanly, it was a kill.
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Postby skank » Fri May 16, 2008 6:12 pm

Eneroth wrote:I read this thread, tried to tell my guild leader/raid leader, about how I would be helpful to the raid if I didn't throw on my healing gear, but they said "we just need two warriors" and I would be useless. Oh well, kind of irked me a bit, still have the mind set that I am only good for a couple mobs to kill, but have yet to kill any real bosses outside of KZ.


I am actually fortunate enough to be considered a MT. With that being said i still get the AOE tanking/trash duties, but i am completly interchangable. Our typical makeup is 1 warrior,1 drood, 1 Warrior/2 warriors (sometimes). My guild sees me as a tank not a pally tank which makes thign a bit more fun.

We are still working on getting vash down but our biggest problem is as of late we have lost alot of healers so we replace them, then lose them and so on. It makes every new vash night a learning night it seems.

phase 1- I do nothing basically just heal with my FOL and call out who needs to move.

Phase 2- I MT the warrior pics up the Naga and brings em to me (thats right the warrior is my &@#$ LOL) This also makes it very easy for phase 3 transition warrior just picks vash j up. We typically only have 1 naga up at a time. What gives us the most problems is getting every core from the get go.

we have yet to down her and are having a difficult time with the tainted elementals phase 2, but 2 weeks our 2nd weeks of attempts (by week we usually have 2 nights where its nothing but vash) we came in and wiped on first attempt. 2nd attempt got her to phase 3 like it was nothing. 3rd attempt got her to 2 percent. But now it seems like since we keep losing people we can not get out of phase 2.
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Postby skank » Mon May 19, 2008 6:42 pm

update: We downed vash j last night. it was 6th attempt and pwnd her
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Postby Rónin » Wed May 28, 2008 9:04 am

My guild has tried Lady Vashj for a couple of times now, on which we made some good first impressions by immediately going into stage 2 without any wipe. But, as expected (I can say it here :wink: ), continuously wiping in Stage two of the fight. For motivation purposes we moved on to Mount Hyjal instead, but there is a big chance to return to Lady Vashj, now the most players got the taste of new boss blood in Mount Hyjal.

As both GM and Raid Leader, I want to prevent another "redirection" of the guild with the actual kill, also to prevent loss of motivation. So I would like to ask you all for some advice for Stage two.

Former Raid Setup
[2] Tanks: MT Paladin (me) and an OT (Druid or Warrior);
[7] Healers
[16] DPS: [4] Melee and [12] DPS.

In summary the approach is:
* group 1 consists out of the MT, OT , Warlock, Healer, Shaman (Healer is getting aggro by healing in the middle, so that OT can pick it up);
* group 2 to group 5 consist out of 1 melee, 1 ranged, 1 healer, 2 random assigned to 1 of the 4 sectors (N, S, E, W);
* random players in these groups are standing in the middle, either assigned to a generator or can move freely as DPS or Healer;
* 1 melee, 1 ranged, 1 healer in these groups are a group on their own, getting the elementals on each of the sectors.

I know killing the elementals and tainted elementals, while having to throw the ball is a game on it's own, I think we can all agree on the fact that having large discussions won't help the progress on that. You have to do it, period. So I want to focus on the whole fight in the middle. For some reason, we can't control the strider (killing it on time) where on the same time we need to control the naga's as well.

Questions
So questions that we have:
* do we need to change the raid group composition (less melee)?
* do you use your melee on the elementals on the outside or on the naga's in the middle?
* how much DPS (amount of classes) is needed to get a Strider down, before a new one is coming in?
* we have used a frost mage for Strider Kiting, should we consider an Elemental Shaman for our next tries (I don't want to change the kiter all the time, because one things is certain then, we wont progress).

If there are any other issues you see in our approach, which has not been covered by any of the above questions, you are most welcome to mention them as well. We can definitely use all the help.

Thank you in advance.

Regards,
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Postby ehly » Wed May 28, 2008 1:54 pm

Rónin wrote:Questions
So questions that we have:
* do we need to change the raid group composition (less melee)?
* do you use your melee on the elementals on the outside or on the naga's in the middle?
* how much DPS (amount of classes) is needed to get a Strider down, before a new one is coming in?
* we have used a frost mage for Strider Kiting, should we consider an Elemental Shaman for our next tries (I don't want to change the kiter all the time, because one things is certain then, we wont progress).


For starters phase 2 is really the fight itself. Phase 1 and 3 usually (to my experience) are not too bad.

Different people do this fight different ways. Back when I did it we had a raid composition much like you did.

For us both tanks (myself and a warrior) and all the melee worked on nagas in the middle. We had a group ranged dps mostly locks and shadow priests in the middle as well working on striders.

The dps benchmark really is trying to kill the naga and strider about when the next one spawns. If you have say 3 naga's up then the dps is too slow.

I usually planted myself in the one side of the middle and the warrior collected the naga and brought them to me if my ranged taunt didn't pick them up. He and the melee would work on dpsing the naga. Some of them had instructions to break away and kill any elementals that made it to the top before they reached Vashj. Usually the other tank broke away during a core toss and helped to dunk the core into the middle.

A big thing is the ranged working on the striders need to stay away from the spot the naga is as to reduce the raid damage of her chain lightning.

As for the striders. We had a frost mage, and a warlock who spec'd into exhustion(sp). Not to mention the 1-2 shadow priests. They also used Netherweave nets whenever they could.

Hope it helps. Vashj is a fight I had fun with :)
Last edited by ehly on Thu May 29, 2008 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Rónin » Thu May 29, 2008 8:37 am

Thank you Ehly,

If I understand you correctly, this means (although I know there are multiple ways of doing all fights) that:

* we need to move our melee people into the middle to DPS the Nagas and any Elemental that has broken loose and trade them for Ranged on the outskirts;
* it takes 3-4 DPS to have a stable situation on the Striders, where using Netherweave Nets is definitely useful to stop them from moving.

Is this right?

Then, if so, how many melee would you bring to the party? Do we actually need 4 melee on the Nagas or can we fulfill the task with 3 or even 2, so that we can focus more on the Strider with a bit more ranged?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
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Postby ehly » Thu May 29, 2008 1:54 pm

Thats how I did it, yes.

edit my post above: "A big thing is the ranged working on the striders need to stay away from the spot the naga is as to reduce the raid damage of her chain lightning." >.>;;

Hmm. I think we only had the 2 tanks, and maybe ~3-4 melee dps. Here is my old video of it. Not really a tact video, but I think it shows some of what we did. I think its still linked in the vid section of this forum, but:

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v6298773AkgBTDdY?c=NF25

As shown briefly in the vid; the only other weird thing we did was since we have a raiding ret pally, with his improved movement speed. He was assigned to zipping around and helping any stair sections that were lacking. For example if a core spawned he ran over and started killing elementals in that section so the section person could pick it up. Or if he was close could run in and kil the tainted. Worked well for us.
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Postby Achtung » Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:25 pm

We worked on Vashj for a few hours for the first time yesterday.

I have to say, this fight is a bigger pain in the ass than I had been expecting.

Phase 1 was no problem. Phase 2 we seemed to get working for a while but the whole Phase seems like some stupid juggling encounter where once one thing slips a little the whole fight turns into a frantic/chaotic cluster fuck.

The biggest issue we had was the striders. We had a exhaustion spec lock doing the kiting on these, and different things would keep going wrong with them. The kiter would die, the dps wouldn't kill the strider fast enough and we'd get a 2nd strider, the dps would nuke the strider and pull aggro off the kiter, dps would burn the strider and miss elementals/tainted elementals. Something wouldn't work out and someone would die, and then that would lead to chain reaction of everything else slowly falling apart.

I've been reading through this thread, and everyone keeps talking about "naga naga naga" but I find that they aren't a problem, and neither are the elementals. The striders just seem to wtfpwn the raid. Either they aren't being kited properly, or we can't burn them down fast enough.

Perhaps our DPS just isn't used to splitting their attention on Striders/Elementals yet?
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Postby Blitzago » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:48 pm

From lores explanation is that you dont really need that high of a total raid DPS for p3

Our group setup varies now, that summer is starting but for this fight we will have

2 - 3 tanks
1 pally and 1 or 2 warriors

We will have 5 melee or so

7 Healers

and the rest Ranged DPS

We run with 3 hunters also, 1 or 2 mages, 2 - 3 locks

Im thinking we could have a lock kitting the strider with some of the ranged DPS on it, and have the melee on the nagas

and have our Hunters/ele shammy on the sides. and having the tank whos not busy working on the cores.
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Postby tariannare » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:05 am

while u say a pally should not be main tanking vashj i assume i out gear the encounter enough it shouldn't be a problem lol. I recently downgraded in content to get a main tank position. I wouldn't know because i ended up skipping all of ssc and kael in tk so nvr did those 2.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... &n=Saelaen
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Postby Dapperdann » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:13 am

We have our warroirs respec dps and we have two prot pallys main tanking vashj. We still have not down her yet but we are getting close.
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