Serpentshrine Cavern - Lady Vashj

Hydross, Lurker, Leotheras, Fathom-Lord, Tidewalker, Vashj

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Postby Dorvan » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:35 am

Kyroro wrote:To be honest I've never had that problem before until I was a guest tank in another guild's TK raid - they had me picking up the little birdies in P1 (I'm usually on the platform for my own guild) and sometimes when they spawned, they would target a healer across the room, which means taunt does NOT work. Not much of a solution here, especially if you use the "save adds, AOE in P2" strat except run your ass off and hope that you land your taunt before the bird kills the clothie.


A bit off topic, but if you pre-emptively run towards the healers while the adds is coming down the taunt is not a problem. As long as you're near the person with aggro, the bird can be on the other side of the room when you taunt and it'll work fine.
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Postby Agravaine » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:24 pm

We've just started working on this, but I've been trying to think of naga catching as football.

In football, you don't run directly after the person you are trying to tackle, because they are just as fast as you or faster -- instead you have to run to where they are going to be.

Instead of running at the elite, you have to start running to the healer.

AS is also plenty of agro to pull off a healer typically.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:56 pm

We have a couple paladin healers in the middle with RF up, so anything that spawns usually making a beeline towards the center, where either I or a Warlock is waiting to pick it up. We figure it's better to control things and use the healers in plate as decoys, instead of the squishies.

Vashj is a stupid fight. I honestly think it's harder than Kael simply because of the random number bullshit.
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Postby Worldie » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:00 pm

A Warlock? A Warrior i suppose :p


Vashj is harder to execute than Kael, but easier to learn.
Kael is harder to learn, but way easier to execute.
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Postby Zhelari » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:05 am

I hate this fight. 5 nights now (20ish hours) and only into phase 3 twice. It's so disheartening when something different goes wrong on every attempt.

Strider dps too low one attempt, leaking elementals from somewhere leading to low naga dps, and the always favorite striders/naga spawning and killing 1-2 people before they even make it up the ramp.

Most things I have read say you should be able to get her down after 3-4 full nights on her. Knowing that we have Kael after this really only makes it worse. I understand why they are called the guild killers now. :(
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Postby Dorvan » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:35 am

Zhelari wrote:I hate this fight. 5 nights now (20ish hours) and only into phase 3 twice. It's so disheartening when something different goes wrong on every attempt.

Strider dps too low one attempt, leaking elementals from somewhere leading to low naga dps, and the always favorite striders/naga spawning and killing 1-2 people before they even make it up the ramp.

Most things I have read say you should be able to get her down after 3-4 full nights on her. Knowing that we have Kael after this really only makes it worse. I understand why they are called the guild killers now. :(


Well, if it's any encouragement, Kael is imo easier than Vashj now...and you have much more of a sense of progression while learning the fight. With Vashj on the other hand you have to basically learn everything in parallel so that everything seems like chaos until it suddenly clicks, and then you get her down on your first or second time in phase 3 with everyone up.
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Postby Gracerath » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:56 am

For what its worth, we put in WAY more time on Vashj than we did on Kael. Probably twice as much time. The thing with Vashj is there are so many things that can just go horribly wrong and are completely out of your control in phase 2. I'm sure you've had a strider or naga spawn right on top of one of your elemental healer/dpsers and one shot them before they could even react. Thats often hard to recover from. Having good dps on naga and striders really makes or breaks the fight if you ask me. Having the strider down 5-10 seconds before a new one spawns is great for your kiter because he doesn't have to worry about dragging the current strider through the center if he has to run across the room to pick up the next spawn. Good naga dps means they are free quicker to help dps down any elementals that leak through. And of course good dps on those will translate into good dps on Vashj.

For a month, we couldn't even get out of phase 2. Then something just clicked. We got to phase 3 several times on a Saturday. On Sunday, we went in and killed her on our first attempt of the night.

The biggest guild drama we've ever had was due to Vashj. Lots of finger pointing, name calling, yelling on vent. Just keep refining you strat. Adjust your best dpsers into slots where they'll be utilized the best. Bring the A team.
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Postby Zhelari » Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:25 am

It seems the nagas and striders are usually dying 5-10 seconds after the next spawn. Everything we have touched so far that is a 'dps race' we have destroyed. Then we hit Vashj and it seems like we are suddenly lacking dps. It's just really hard to gauge what really needs improvement when someone new screws something up each attempt. Sure, there are the unavoidable deaths with bad spawns and such...but it is usually someone doing something wrong and getting themselves killed.

I will say that last night was a good night overall in terms of progression. Our two phase 3 attempts were a 23 and 20% wipe. Sadly, the 23 was probably the best attempt we had over all. We only had two people dead at the transition. We just lost too much dps finishing off the adds before getting on vashj.

One thing we were trying was holding the last core a few seconds to get more dps on the adds before we let her loose. But, even taking down the last generator with 5 seconds left on a strider spawn, the strider still spawned. That actually prevented a good kill as we only had one naga and one strider up at the time and they were both <20% health.

The officers (myself included) have already made the decision to go back on sunday instead of doing 3/4 in TK. But. some of the class reps were complaining of 'burning out' the guild. I just don't see one night a week as very effective use of our raid time if we are actually going to kill her.

With only 3 raid nights, I think we are better off just banging our heads into the wall until we get her down. Bah, that was a bit more long winded than I had intended. :?
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Postby YoYoMa » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:01 am

Zhelari it sounds like maybe you have the phase 2 part down now and you just need to tweak the transition to phase 3. Because in all honesty, if you have pretty much the full raid up at the start of phase 3 you've won.

You definitely want to time popping the last generator. You said you did it 5 seconds before and you still had the strider. We had the same issue with the strider still popping if you timed it too close. So we now do it 10 seconds before the next strider. By then the first strider should be down and all you have is the remaining elementals and the naga. So with 10 seconds we pop the last generator and pick up vashj. The stair people finish off their elementals and everybody focuses on buring down the last naga. That also buys the tank enough time to get a solid aggro lead and then we have everybody just unload on Vashj. It really shouldn't take more than 10-15 seconds to get everybody transitioned into p3 and the board clear of all other adds.

The other thing to remember is that p3 is just like p1 so don't panic. Just execute like normal, watch out for static charges. Only difference is people need to crank it up, pop trinkets etc. and of course moving if you get any bat poop.
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Postby Zhelari » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:53 am

That's nice to hear. I was wondering if popping the last gen would just force spawn the strider. Just have to move that last core a bit faster. Thanks.
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Postby YoYoMa » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:31 pm

Yeah try about 10 seconds. We don't get the strider if we do it then but if we wait any longer he comes up. That should really help a lot if you don't need to worry about a full dps on a new strider.

I'm usually the one popping generators in p2 so I just get the last one and stand there and call out on vent when I'm going to hit it so everybody can get ready. And like I said for us the other strider is down by then so everybody is working on the last naga anyway.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:09 pm

It could also be raid makeup. This fight is absolutely horrible for melee. If you have ranged, bring them. Warlocks? Wonderful. Hunters? Excellent. Shadow priests? Yes please. Even those poor mage stepchildren.

If you can consistently control the striders and kill them quickly, you're in good shape. Lose control of a strider, and you're probably going to wipe.

Also: netherweave nets -- used intelligently -- makes them die quickly.

Worldie wrote:A Warlock? A Warrior i suppose :p


A warlock if it's a strider, me if it's a naga :)

Worldie wrote:Vashj is harder to execute than Kael, but easier to learn.
Kael is harder to learn, but way easier to execute.


qft. Dear Blizzard: random bullshit is not entertaining.
Last edited by fuzzygeek on Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Enkal » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:21 pm

4th night of tries on her... 8% last week, 8% this week. I hate this fish lady... :( It's almost magical how we always have 25/25 up at 3/4 cores and then everything breaks down, as soon as 1 person dies it's like a chain reaction leading to a wipe.

Right now it's the 4th core that wipes us or just too many ppl that die in phase 3. How many ppl do you guys keep on the bats in the beginning of P3? Both our 8% tries noone killed bats, yea I know it's not good but I just learned about it.. looked up on that 8% try when she killed the last of the raid, had a damned cloud of bats up lol
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Postby Zhelari » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:52 am

Our hunters were not able to really kill any of the bats. So, I think we are just going to try and burn her down. Hopefully, we can kill her before the toxic pool is everywhere.

Sadly, our instance servers were down on Sunday and we lost an entire raid night. Thursday she must die!
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Postby Jensaarai » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:56 am

We typically have one person on the bats, either a hunter or an affliction lock, though our hunters have been speccing out of the 41yd talent lately, I think, so an affliction lock has been picking them up. And I'd definitely kill the bats, their toxic spit is what's going to wipe you in p3, if you don't kill them you have nowhere to go...it makes things much easier if you kill them.
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