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Serpentshrine Cavern - Lady Vashj

Hydross, Lurker, Leotheras, Fathom-Lord, Tidewalker, Vashj

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Postby Chorus » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:50 pm

Two points of interest:

1.) There are some strategies which involve simply collecting and offtanking the Nagas the entire fight. One or two are killed with dots or with downtime waiting for the next major threats to spawn. This strategy works well for us in that we focus more needed attention on getting the Striders down. Typically we end up with 2 or 3 Nagas left on this OT (with 2 healers) going into Phase 3 with this approach.

2.) Two (affliction) Locks assigned to kill Sporebats will make phase 3 much, much more bearable. They fly in from the bridgeway the raid takes to get to Vashj; the best place for the Locks to stand would be right at the top of the stairs as close to the bridge as they can be. Having them focus on the bats reduces excess moving so your melee DPS is maximized, as well as saving lives due to the lessened number of toxic spore areas.
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Postby Lore » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:49 am

We use Hunters to kill the bats, with their 41-yard range. Affliction locks is an interesting idea though, I'll have to suggest it next time we're there.
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Postby Cakes » Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:01 pm

Chorus wrote:Two points of interest:

1.) There are some strategies which involve simply collecting and offtanking the Nagas the entire fight. One or two are killed with dots or with downtime waiting for the next major threats to spawn. This strategy works well for us in that we focus more needed attention on getting the Striders down. Typically we end up with 2 or 3 Nagas left on this OT (with 2 healers) going into Phase 3 with this approach.


So my guess is that you have your melee working on tainteds and other elementals? Without them on Naga, they really have nothing else to do.

My other question is do you bother killing these naga after phase 3 is settled into (i.e. all the striders are down, MT is on Vashj and everyone is moving into positions)?

We had planned on having hunters work on the sporebats in phase 3, but we still have yet to see it. Last night we had some promising attempts, so we'll see how it goes.
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Postby Chorus » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:09 pm

Cakes wrote:
Chorus wrote:Two points of interest:

1.) There are some strategies which involve simply collecting and offtanking the Nagas the entire fight. One or two are killed with dots or with downtime waiting for the next major threats to spawn. This strategy works well for us in that we focus more needed attention on getting the Striders down. Typically we end up with 2 or 3 Nagas left on this OT (with 2 healers) going into Phase 3 with this approach.


So my guess is that you have your melee working on tainteds and other elementals? Without them on Naga, they really have nothing else to do.

My other question is do you bother killing these naga after phase 3 is settled into (i.e. all the striders are down, MT is on Vashj and everyone is moving into positions)?

We had planned on having hunters work on the sporebats in phase 3, but we still have yet to see it. Last night we had some promising attempts, so we'll see how it goes.


That is correct, melee are responsible for dealing with the elementals and tainteds. We found that having the melee trying to stay up top killing Nagas basically made them one big target for Vashj's chain lightning. Casters can be spread out up top and near the stairs such that there is always something to DPS on. If no Elementals/tainteds are up, they work on a marked Naga, if a Strider spawns, they focus on that primarily.

As for remaining Nagas going into Phase 3, we leave them alive and focus all effort on Vashj. It ties up an OT and two healers, but the time gained in DPS on Vashj (as well as the gains mentioned above by killing the bats) is enormous.
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/chara ... w&n=Chorus
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Postby Chorus » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:17 pm

Lore wrote:We use Hunters to kill the bats, with their 41-yard range. Affliction locks is an interesting idea though, I'll have to suggest it next time we're there.


We originally had Hunters try it out, but I believe they were both BM and without the extended range talent, so it didn't work as well. The Affliction Locks can fatally DoT one up while it is briefly in range as well as DoT up Vashj if they find themselves with a spare moment.
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/chara ... w&n=Chorus
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zomg

Postby DracAlexstrasza » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:11 pm

First kill... and all I have to say is ranged f'ing taunt ftw!
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Postby pyrotechniq » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:48 pm

Lore wrote:
Daeren wrote:But Lore, why don't you tank her yourself and buff yourself with Freedom and ranged taunt her.

Sounds like a way to make it even easier.


The stun. She only hits the MT with it, and it tends to happen simultaneously with the roots.


I never get stunned, we did her with only me as a tank. Just get a shammy to drop grounding totems for you


edit:
I always post b4 readin the rest of the thread... :?
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Postby Coldaan » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:50 am

So yesterday was our first attempt on Vashj.

Phase 1 went smoothly with a grounding totem and 2 palas (me and another) having a BoF rotation on our MT. Nobody died, everything fine.

Then we had our melees (and some ranged/casters) assigned for the elementals on the stairs, 2 warlocks for kiting the striders and me and our MT ready to tank the nagas.

1) in phase 2 we positioned the nagas between 2 shield generators as there they are in range for most of the dps (who are in the inner circle) and the striders should be kited on the outer circle. however we were feared sometimes, and (which is the biggest problem) the dps really sucked.
we managed to kill 1 naga before the second spawned, and then focused on the striders. we ended up with 2-3 nagas and 2 striders then, which always resulted in a wipe.
so... any tips for dps?
for those who already have a lot of experience with this fight, how many nagas/striders do you usually have simultaneously?
how long does phase 2 usually take?

2) offtanking the nagas in phase 3 could be a problem. i'd guess you need lots of healing for the raid in this phase, and if you have 1 additional tank with 2-3 nagas as well, this tank will need lots and lots of healing, as the cleave of the nagas is pretty rough.
how many healers do you have in your raid when doing Vashj, and how many heal the offtank then in phase 3?
are 2 healers really enough?
this is of particular interest for me because I will probably be the offtank.^^
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Postby Endureil » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:28 am

My taunt usualy fails on phase one when she stuns our warrior. My char do cast the taunt but it just doesn't work, it doesn't resist it just doesn't bring her back to me instead she just ignores the spell. Though I have to admit it worked sometimes but it mostly fails, wtb real taunt >_>

We are still working on phase 2, let's see if the other phases has anything to offer for me, cause I really think phase 1 is fucked up for pala tanks due the nature of our "taunt".
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Postby Lore » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:30 am

Endureil wrote:My taunt usualy fails on phase one when she stuns our warrior. My char do cast the taunt but it just doesn't work, it doesn't resist it just doesn't bring her back to me instead she just ignores the spell. Though I have to admit it worked sometimes but it mostly fails, wtb real taunt >_>

We are still working on phase 2, let's see if the other phases has anything to offer for me, cause I really think phase 1 is fucked up for pala tanks due the nature of our "taunt".


With proper usage of Grounding Totem and Blessing of Freedom there is very rarely any need to taunt.
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Postby Cakes » Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:57 pm

Make no mistakes, phase 2 IS the fight. There is so much going on, and even on good attempts, it's controlled chaos. My suggestion is to focus on one thing till you can do it with your eyes closed. Personally, I'd start with strider control. Striders have to go down, having another one coming while the first is on death's door is fine, but having 2 up is bad news. When your strider control is down pat (i.e. killing striders long before the next one spawns), work on getting ranged dps to dot up and burn the nagas. When that is accomplished, work on core relaying.

Core relaying is non-trivial, people have to be vocal about where elementals are spawning and be on top of them so they don't despawn. There are all sorts of things that can go wrong in core relaying, from having master looter on (for those that use it) to people not having free bag space (yes, this will wipe you) to tossing a core to people that are kiting.

Most importantly, people have to keep themselves alive. There is a lot of damage tossed around in this phase, and people are moving so they might not always be near a healer. People that get dotted by a tainted elemental are in particular danger. Health pots, healthstones, even a single tick of a bandage might save you.

Once you have all these things mastered and elementals aren't leaking in to Vashj, you have one final thing to worry about: when to transition to phase 3. You don't want to do this too early, as having a strider up fearing everyone will be bad. Having a few naga up isn't nearly as bad as long as they aren't being tanked by the MT. If they are, taunt them off or go tank Vashj yourself.
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Postby Nich » Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:10 pm

After ~3 weeks of my guild working on Vashj, I got in for the first time the other night.

All of the fairly normal tactics you'd expect, tho' for some reason they like having 3 tanks. For the attempts I was in for (I was subbed out after 4 or 5 due to not being on vent - ISDN (128k) was being fully utilised by the encounter, vent was adding 5sec cast lag), I had the druid MT and warrior OT pickup elites and drag them back to me. The first few attempts worked well, with AS + RD picking up things at range.

On the last attempt tho', and a lot of what had me sub'd out, was taunt acting weird. I'd taunt off the other tanks and the elite would run at me for a second, and then promptly ignore me and jump back to the tank. Or whoever else had aggro before I taunted. I went almost OOM pretty quickly, spamming aggro dumps to try and keep the things on me, and they'd always turn back away. Is this an issue that's happened for anyone else?

Frustrating, because after I jumped out (and they got the warrior MT back in, home from soccer training), they had the first kill within 30 minutes ~_~

If I can't guarantee that I can tank adds, then I can't hope to convince them to let me back in anytime soon, especially with one less tank. To get into Hyjal I'm likely going to have to get someone else to play me for that fight, and pray the issues were somehow latency-related.
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Postby pyrotechniq » Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:55 pm

I did this with only me as a tank. Made dps pretty high. I had 2 elites on me at the start of phase 3 but they managed to keep me up. As far as the taunt it did fail a few times but following it up with a shield throw got me agro. If you taunt the mob is forced to attack you for 3 seconds. If during those 3 seconds the mob hasn't managed to close to mellee with you its likely to go after someone else since your still at range and need) xtra agro for him to stay on you.
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Postby enbee » Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:20 am

Endureil wrote:My taunt usualy fails on phase one when she stuns our warrior. My char do cast the taunt but it just doesn't work, it doesn't resist it just doesn't bring her back to me instead she just ignores the spell. Though I have to admit it worked sometimes but it mostly fails


You have to wait for her to target the mt again, which is shit I agree.. cause you can't really tell for sure if the caster she's targetting didnt just pass the mt in threat; I used to taunt no matter who she targetted (multishot or normal shots, you can't tell), just to be safe, the easier way, which I started to do 2 weeks ago is just taunt alot to make sure you and your tanking partner are top threat.
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Postby Dreamcrusher » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:38 pm

Did this fight last night and tonight in my new guild, they incorporated me into their strat pretty damn well I'd have to say.


Phase 1 I kept JoW up on Vashj, BoF'd any melee who got the charge and taunted Vashj off the warrior if he got it.

Phase 2 I basically ran around looking for things to do. I would pick up Naga when they spawned and bring them to the MT, Stun/JoW/Goblin Rocket Launcher the Striders as they were being kited (our ele shaman is very on the ball, so I never had to do more than stun the strider before it killed anyone and it was agro locked on the shaman after that) and then relayed cores/dps'd nagas until...

Phase 3 - right before phase 3 starts, I drop consecration and begin meleeing Vashj. Usually we have 1-2 Naga up (+1 that just did or is about to) when I get to this position, so the warrior MT is still tied up. When the 4th barrier goes down, I immediately pick up Vashj (hoping she doesn't 1-shot anyone else in the fraction of a second it takes) and tank the shit out of her until the warrior's Naga are dead. Then when the timing is right and the healers are ready for the transition, he taunts her off me and we go back to the same thing as Phase 1.

I know we have hunters killing sporebats (they focus on Vashj around 10%), not sure about warlocks. I was too focused on getting my own job down before I started watching other people :P

Vashj didn't hit too hard, 4-6k melee 5-6.5k shoot damage, was extremely manageable (I popped Ironshields the first couple tries, but eventually stopped because the incoming damage wasn't too much)

All in all, fun fight, very hectic but controllable. Reminds me a lot of C'thun in some ways.
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