Blog and interesting find! (well most of us did know it)

Hydross, Lurker, Leotheras, Fathom-Lord, Tidewalker, Vashj

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Blog and interesting find! (well most of us did know it)

Postby Nicki » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:51 pm

http://www.theoryspot.com/forums/blogs/ ... myths.html

I tanked morogrim 2nd attempt of the night and there was no worry what so ever about healing on me. 23k health fully buffed did help but the comments were 'is he even taking damage?'

We did have a spare prot to tank the murlocs which was imba <3 zhee (spelling will be wrong but they did awesom) but if yoru guilds like struggling because of tank deaths then over 19k-20k will do for tidewalker hes a weakling. I suffered 1 crush from him and none from magtheridon. I also tanked shaman and didnt really get low..magtheridon caused more worries then both tbh.
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Postby Kitria » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:59 pm

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Postby Swagger » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:08 pm

Kitria wrote:ibtl?


tldr!
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Postby jere » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:09 pm

Personally, I would say this is more than simply a success story as it does offer up discussion for our viability on bosses that typically aren't thought our strong ones.
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Postby Nicki » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:31 pm

Well yes also would it surprise you that I did both with max stam gearing about 44-46% unbuffed avoidance?

Typical view is that druids are the tanks for tidewalker and tidalviss..yet eventhough i didn't have full hp on either (due to buffs fading) I really didnt even get close to dying as much as druid tanks have on either boss.

Tidalviss was a shock, maybe spell warding helps or something? I got 4k melee pre block and i was only hit in melee 2x... (combat monitor 2 ftw)

Tidewalker i suffered 1 crush no normal hits

and magtheridon i blocked every attack.

Holy shield is stronger than shield block as far as mitigation goes. I sadly didn't log tidewalker :( but im guessing the crush was due to bad timing of concecration..

The fact is ive championed this idea that a paladin is a better tank than any other on tide walker! but ive never been able to conclusively say id done it and it worked.

I did it, it worked!

I am tempted to say that paladins excel at bosses that can crush. I have logged many magtheridon fights and every single warrior tank has taken 3 crushes atleast. I took 0.

EDIT:
missed: 15.74%
dodged: 21.99%
parried: 12.96%
crush: 0.23%
block: 49.07%
8.75% block mitigation out of 408 block value

Funny I dont even have 50% avoidance im not even close =) avoidance is random health is not.
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Postby Maranus » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:03 pm

Warriors suck at tidewalker.
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Postby Aurica » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:34 am

I wonder if a pally tank can single tank tidewalker + the adds if the gear allows for it.

I been to tidewalker a few times, first two was quite smooth and the guild liked me... the 3rd I lost all credibility as a pally tank due to being trapped in water bubbles for 6 times when the murlocs came..
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:45 am

Aurica wrote:I wonder if a pally tank can single tank tidewalker + the adds if the gear allows for it.

I been to tidewalker a few times, first two was quite smooth and the guild liked me... the 3rd I lost all credibility as a pally tank due to being trapped in water bubbles for 6 times when the murlocs came..


I doubt it, you'd have a very hard time rounding them up and even if you did get them all, they'd blow threw your holy shield exposing you to crushing blows. You'd basically be a druid with probably less avoidance and certainly less armor.
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Postby Maranus » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:48 am

Fridmarr wrote:
Aurica wrote:I wonder if a pally tank can single tank tidewalker + the adds if the gear allows for it.

I been to tidewalker a few times, first two was quite smooth and the guild liked me... the 3rd I lost all credibility as a pally tank due to being trapped in water bubbles for 6 times when the murlocs came..


I doubt it, you'd have a very hard time rounding them up and even if you did get them all, they'd blow threw your holy shield exposing you to crushing blows. You'd basically be a druid with probably less avoidance and certainly less armor.


Not if you kept them behind you =P
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Postby Gracerath » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:11 am

As all things, it really just depends on the makeup of your raid. I'm the only raid geared prot paladin we have. It would be dumb for me to tank Tidewalker when no one else can even come close to holding aggro on all the murloc adds.

Btw, our druid gets hit for 3-4k normal as well and I always hear our healers say "Geeze are you going to take some damage or what?" after a long string of dodges. Which happens. A lot.

Just goes to show that tanks of all flavors really ARE interchangable for most encounters. Variety is the spice of life after all.
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Postby Nicki » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:27 am

Gracerath wrote:As all things, it really just depends on the makeup of your raid. I'm the only raid geared prot paladin we have. It would be dumb for me to tank Tidewalker when no one else can even come close to holding aggro on all the murloc adds.

Btw, our druid gets hit for 3-4k normal as well and I always hear our healers say "Geeze are you going to take some damage or what?" after a long string of dodges. Which happens. A lot.

Just goes to show that tanks of all flavors really ARE interchangable for most encounters. Variety is the spice of life after all.



I want to point out that the first tidewalker kills by the top guilds (nihilum, celeb (i had a friend in there telling me cons could never work)) Did not use a paladin tank. Theres other methods to controlling murlocs e.g. Frost nova nuke tactitc
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Postby Maranus » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:37 am

Nicki wrote:
Gracerath wrote:As all things, it really just depends on the makeup of your raid. I'm the only raid geared prot paladin we have. It would be dumb for me to tank Tidewalker when no one else can even come close to holding aggro on all the murloc adds.

Btw, our druid gets hit for 3-4k normal as well and I always hear our healers say "Geeze are you going to take some damage or what?" after a long string of dodges. Which happens. A lot.

Just goes to show that tanks of all flavors really ARE interchangable for most encounters. Variety is the spice of life after all.



I want to point out that the first tidewalker kills by the top guilds (nihilum, celeb (i had a friend in there telling me cons could never work)) Did not use a paladin tank. Theres other methods to controlling murlocs e.g. Frost nova nuke tactitc


And?

That doesn't mean that a prot pally isn't a better solution, or that given an nearly equally viable maintank, the prot pally shouldn't be tanking the murlocs.
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Postby Nicki » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:55 am

Maranus wrote:
Nicki wrote:
Gracerath wrote:As all things, it really just depends on the makeup of your raid. I'm the only raid geared prot paladin we have. It would be dumb for me to tank Tidewalker when no one else can even come close to holding aggro on all the murloc adds.

Btw, our druid gets hit for 3-4k normal as well and I always hear our healers say "Geeze are you going to take some damage or what?" after a long string of dodges. Which happens. A lot.

Just goes to show that tanks of all flavors really ARE interchangable for most encounters. Variety is the spice of life after all.



I want to point out that the first tidewalker kills by the top guilds (nihilum, celeb (i had a friend in there telling me cons could never work)) Did not use a paladin tank. Theres other methods to controlling murlocs e.g. Frost nova nuke tactitc


And?

That doesn't mean that a prot pally isn't a better solution, or that given an nearly equally viable maintank, the prot pally shouldn't be tanking the murlocs.


We are significantly easier to heal, if theres a work around for controlling murlocs then so be it tbh! The only thing that would rival a prot paladin's abillity to tank tidewalker is an uncrushable warrior except pre t6 thats gimping his health pool. Don't get me wrong ive had druids tank tidewalker but hell ive watched the health drop from full to nothing in no time (parry mechanic and crush even worse for druids!)

I am tempted to say that it would make the fight easier because you would require less constant healing on the main tank if it is a paladin. Taking a predictable 4k melee is much easier to heal than having random bursts of 6k 8k 6k 8k~ meaning less healers actually needed on the tank. Frost nova seed spam works for lots of people so i dont actually see the need for a paladin to tank murlocs, do you?

Pros: less healing needed on main tank, no instagib chance, not likely to fall below 40%.
Cons: need other way to deal with 12 mobs that have relatively low health.

It requires a bit of thinking but my old guild had problems on tidewalker when i wasnt there (as in they couldnt do it) where as if people learned to control the murlocs differently then it wouldnt be a hastle..theres usually 3 tanks spare 2 of which can take a whole side and the other side can theoritcally be nuked.
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Re: Blog and interesting find! (well most of us did know it)

Postby honorshammer » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:48 am

Nicki wrote:http://www.theoryspot.com/forums/blogs/nicki/111-23k-hp-new-start-new-guild-busting-myths.html

I tanked morogrim 2nd attempt of the night and there was no worry what so ever about healing on me. 23k health fully buffed did help but the comments were 'is he even taking damage?'

We did have a spare prot to tank the murlocs which was imba <3 zhee (spelling will be wrong but they did awesom) but if yoru guilds like struggling because of tank deaths then over 19k-20k will do for tidewalker hes a weakling. I suffered 1 crush from him and none from magtheridon. I also tanked shaman and didnt really get low..magtheridon caused more worries then both tbh.


The only Lissella Paladin I can find on the Armory is on the server Nazgrel and is Prot (0/61/0), but has no where near that amount of HP. Maybe that's you in farming gear or soemthing. The 3 Level 70 Paladins named Nikki are all Holy.

WTB link to your Armory.
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Postby Gracerath » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:52 am

So basically you are saying that if there are 2 decently geared/skilled prot paladins in the raid, having one of them tank Tidewalker is a good idea. I can get behind that sure.

That being said, if your druid is taking strings of huge hits like that, I'd suggest that maybe something is wrong with his/her gear or spec. Our feral gets hit in the 3-4k range.

Anyhow I digress. Congrats on your progress.
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