Fathom Lord

Hydross, Lurker, Leotheras, Fathom-Lord, Tidewalker, Vashj

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Postby Cakes » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:29 pm

The values of tanking Sharkis on top of or close to the shaman outweigh the downsides, imo. First, all your dps (with the exception of the interrupters on the priest) are there burning down the hunter. It is a simple matter to quickly switch to a spitfire (via macro) and hit it, then continue back to dpsing the main target. Second, you have all your dps and healers together, so the chances of just healers being hit by the viper sting ability is mitigated somewhat by probability. Third, any splash damage you do on the hunter and pet is applied to the shaman, which results in less time for the hunter to drain the raid and less time that healers have to stress about the shaman tank.
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Postby Tiandelin » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:56 pm

Cakes wrote:The values of tanking Sharkis on top of or close to the shaman outweigh the downsides, imo. First, all your dps (with the exception of the interrupters on the priest) are there burning down the hunter. It is a simple matter to quickly switch to a spitfire (via macro) and hit it, then continue back to dpsing the main target. Second, you have all your dps and healers together, so the chances of just healers being hit by the viper sting ability is mitigated somewhat by probability. Third, any splash damage you do on the hunter and pet is applied to the shaman, which results in less time for the hunter to drain the raid and less time that healers have to stress about the shaman tank.


Fourth, aoe debuffs like demo shout and thunderclap can be applied to all three mobs easily. Our raid usually has a druid tanking the shaman and a paladin (me) tanking the hunter and pet, while two warriors are stationed elsewhere keeping Karathress and the priest busy. A dps warrior is tasked with keeping sunder, demo shout, and thunderclap up on the shaman anyway, so it makes sense to have my mobs get hit with it too. Considering the burst damage they can put out while enraged, it's nice to have those debuffs on Sharkkis and his pet.
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Postby Cakes » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:50 am

Tiandelin wrote:Fourth, aoe debuffs like demo shout and thunderclap can be applied to all three mobs easily. Our raid usually has a druid tanking the shaman and a paladin (me) tanking the hunter and pet, while two warriors are stationed elsewhere keeping Karathress and the priest busy. A dps warrior is tasked with keeping sunder, demo shout, and thunderclap up on the shaman anyway, so it makes sense to have my mobs get hit with it too. Considering the burst damage they can put out while enraged, it's nice to have those debuffs on Sharkkis and his pet.


I completely forgot that, but it's a great point and also a selling point that I made to my fellow councilors when we were coming up with positioning for this fight.
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Postby DJSticky » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:57 am

Plus your rogues can blade flurry, warriors clear etc
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Postby Lev » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:00 am

I just tanked the hunter yesterday for the first time and it worked pretty well, but we had a retadin, trying to tank the hunters adds, since we did not know, how much inc. dps i would eat. But i'll should do just fine with tanking those, too, next week and the retadin doing his dps :)
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Postby DJSticky » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:48 am

Lev wrote:I just tanked the hunter yesterday for the first time and it worked pretty well, but we had a retadin, trying to tank the hunters adds, since we did not know, how much inc. dps i would eat. But i'll should do just fine with tanking those, too, next week and the retadin doing his dps :)

Yea you should be fine tanking both. When he enrages he can do some decent dps so just save your trinkets for it. I actually swapped my darkmoon card for scarab of displacement the last time I did it and I never took any huge "oh shit I'm gonna die" bursts. Probly just got lucky but every time I've done it before there were a few "oh oh, Healthstone" moments.

For pickign them both up I grab him with a judge, back halfway up (next to the pillar) and drop concecrates till he summons his pet, then keep backing up into the little alcove.
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Postby YoYoMa » Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:14 am

So we took our first shot at this guy last night, I tanke the hunter without much of an issue. Once in a while I missed the whistle and missed my concecrate but i just ran over to the pet and picked him up and dragged him back.

Where we fell apart though was really healing for the shammy. We usually took down my add first but somewhere in there the druid on the shammy would go down (just over 20k health buffed) with 3 healers on him. So we switched it up and tried taking the shammy down first but then my healers were going oom.

This fight seems pretty straight forward if we can just get past this initial hump so I'm curious how people are setting it up? I've heard some that tank the hunter and shammy together if you do the shammy first. That way the viper sting doesn't draing your healers since there are more people to hit, plus you gain the benefits of things like thunderclap and bladefurry etc.

We've also discussed kiting the shammy (or FLK) around once spitfire is on the ground. Basically to get to a point where the healers are out of range of the totem but in range of the tank. We had some limited success with this at the end of the night.

Anyway, just looking for thoughts on setting this up so that we don't loose the shammy tank or my healers with oom.
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Postby Tiandelin » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:01 am

YoYoMa wrote:So we took our first shot at this guy last night, I tanke the hunter without much of an issue. Once in a while I missed the whistle and missed my concecrate but i just ran over to the pet and picked him up and dragged him back.


I just run up and grab him on the pull, then slowly walk backward toward my appointed tanking location. When the whistle goes off, I stop for a moment to consecrate and tab to judge the pet, then tab back to him and keep moving backward.

YoYoMa wrote:Where we fell apart though was really healing for the shammy. We usually took down my add first but somewhere in there the druid on the shammy would go down (just over 20k health buffed) with 3 healers on him. So we switched it up and tried taking the shammy down first but then my healers were going oom.


Did you have a shaman in the druid's group using grounding totem to eat the shocks? It helps with the insane burst that Tidalvess can do.

YoYoMa wrote:This fight seems pretty straight forward if we can just get past this initial hump so I'm curious how people are setting it up? I've heard some that tank the hunter and shammy together if you do the shammy first. That way the viper sting doesn't draing your healers since there are more people to hit, plus you gain the benefits of things like thunderclap and bladefurry etc.


Really, tanking them on top of each other just makes the fight so much easier in virtually every respect. There's no disadvantage to doing it that way if you kill the shaman first.

YoYoMa wrote:We've also discussed kiting the shammy (or FLK) around once spitfire is on the ground. Basically to get to a point where the healers are out of range of the totem but in range of the tank. We had some limited success with this at the end of the night.


We kill the shaman first and have the Karathress group kite him around once he starts dropping totems. You should of course kite the shaman if you're killing the hunter first, but we usually take down Tidalvess as quickly as possible so that he has fewer chances to obliterate his tank.
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Postby Dorvan » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:01 am

Yeah, different guilds may find different ways easier, but I'll put in another vote for tanking the hunter and shaman on each other and taking down the shaman first. Our guild even ignores the spitfires while killing the shaman and heals through it to get him down faster. We do kill the spitfires on Karathress though once it's down to just him.
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Postby Stulvan » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:34 pm

Did someone mention how to avoid the cataclysmic bolt?
It seems it only hits mana users.
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Postby Joanadark » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:52 am

They're level 71 elites.


It also means you need less defense to be uncrittable.
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:21 am

Joanadark wrote:
They're level 71 elites.


It also means you need less defense to be uncrittable.


Indeed, though I tend to favor a bit of extra avoidance for this fight anyway, as you're taking lots of 2-3k hits instead of a few large ones.
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Postby Joanadark » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:10 pm

I gear for block value and spell damage when tanking an add.

sooner the first add is bursted down, the sooner DPS moves on.

our first kill on Fathom Lord had a full 1:30 minutes to spare. In the wipe immediately previous we wiped at enrage at 10%.
Time is a real factor in this fight. Giving your raid more of it gives you leeway for having a couple dead people or healer mana being lower.

As the paladin, I get placed on the first add to be killed. And since that's the role I get given, I gear for threat.

After my add is down I swap on a healing relic, sword, and shield and spot heal the raid, especially the healing paladins for mana regen.
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:20 pm

Joanadark wrote:I gear for block value and spell damage when tanking an add.

sooner the first add is bursted down, the sooner DPS moves on.

our first kill on Fathom Lord had a full 1:30 minutes to spare. In the wipe immediately previous we wiped at enrage at 10%.
Time is a real factor in this fight. Giving your raid more of it gives you leeway for having a couple dead people or healer mana being lower.

As the paladin, I get placed on the first add to be killed. And since that's the role I get given, I gear for threat.

After my add is down I swap on a healing relic, sword, and shield and spot heal the raid, especially the healing paladins for mana regen.


Makes sense to me. I tank the hunter and pet, which are 2nd on our kill order, so threat isn't really an issue for me. Another good example of each Paladin gearing to the specific needs of their guilds :)
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Postby Dragonlgnd » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:54 am

I tank the hunter also, usually I have no problem at all , Im given 2 healers. A druid and a priest, ( the druid is more Balance then resto spec, and the priest helps heal me and tosses HoTs around) the only time I have trouble, is when I get hit with a Bolt ( not sure if it cuts your health in half, or deals half you total life in damage) and than hunter , pet hit me and I die.

I think I might mention the tanking on top of thing to my guild, but they are usually stuck in their ways.
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