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Tidewalkers Murlocs

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Postby Warrender » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:07 am

Tiandelin wrote:Staying out of grave range while tanking the murlocs really helps reduce the randomness of the fight. My guild killed Morogrim quickly after we switched to that strategy, having worked on him for a few nights using others. In fact, we did so well on the first try with that strat that we were completely unprepared for the globules (raid leader didn't think we'd get that far on the first try) and wiped.

You don't even need to wear any healing gear. I just put on my blocking set and a healing mace/shield/libram, then swap in my sword and tanking shield when the murlocs reach me, swapping back out when they're dead. Morogrim is tanked at the entrance to Fathom-Lord's tunnel while I stand with a warlock and a healer at the bottom of the steps out of grave range. The warlock never gets hit with anything before the globules come, so he just lifetaps down as far as he can so that I can heal him to pick up the murlocs.

We load him up with every +healing buff we can use, which is generally fel armor, amplify magic, BoL, and in a group with a tree druid if we have one. Along with pots and weapon oil, this easily lets me get aggro with a couple HLs. Both groups hit me at about the same time, and all our warlocks and mages turn around and destroy them while I hold aggro. Once the globules start, everyone in the grave area moves up top and we just keep at it with the same strategy. The warlock just has to be a little more careful about lifetapping since he'll get hit by earthquake.

It makes the fight very simple, if still mind-numbingly repetitive. A brief interruption of dps on Morogrim is far outweighed by eliminating the possibility of wiping because key people get graved at a bad time.


That's the same exact strat my guild uses and it allows for easy one-shots every week. I don't bother with the healing weapon and shield but just use my max threat gear. I'll try that though so I can use my block set next time.
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Postby Joacimcans » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:52 pm

Yeah item rack ftw with just my Lights Justice and crystal pulse shield and i have the +healing to holy light libram on one key bind then my spell damage mace and tanking shield and libram on another. Usually Two holy lights is enough to get aggro just make sure you put BoL on the lock and they have fel armor on really should be enough. Fyi if you switch items with item rack while casting it doesnt cause a global cool down and you still get the +healing if it equips before you heal goes off.
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Postby YoYoMa » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:45 pm

We are facing Tidewalker for the first time tonight and of course I'm going for the adds.

I was thinking of just using my full spell damage tanking set (same one I use against VR). around 520 spell damage unbuffed. Honestly, the +spell damage on my tanking weapon is better than my healing weapon anyway :)

My AoE team is worried that they will pull aggro as they do a fair amount of dps so I'm wondering if this should be fine or not? I plan on having a lock life tap before then toss a heal or two and wait for concecration.

The other thing I'm wondering is if the raid is pretty much grouped up is the healing trick even necessary? Won't the adds come to the group anyway?

Also how often are we talking for the earthquakes? I assume more than once every 2 minutes meaning AW won't be up every time but just wondering.
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Postby YoYoMa » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:46 pm

We are facing Tidewalker for the first time tonight and of course I'm going for the adds.

I was thinking of just using my full spell damage tanking set (same one I use against VR). around 520 spell damage unbuffed. Honestly, the +spell damage on my tanking weapon is better than my healing weapon anyway :)

My AoE team is worried that they will pull aggro as they do a fair amount of dps so I'm wondering if this should be fine or not? I plan on having a lock life tap before then toss a heal or two and wait for concecration.

The other thing I'm wondering is if the raid is pretty much grouped up is the healing trick even necessary? Won't the adds come to the group anyway?

Also how often are we talking for the earthquakes? I assume more than once every 2 minutes meaning AW won't be up every time but just wondering.
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Postby Warrender » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:49 pm

YoYoMa wrote:We are facing Tidewalker for the first time tonight and of course I'm going for the adds.

I was thinking of just using my full spell damage tanking set (same one I use against VR). around 520 spell damage unbuffed. Honestly, the +spell damage on my tanking weapon is better than my healing weapon anyway :)


520 SD is plenty. I don't think I get that much buffed and I never use AW for the murlocs and do just fine.
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Postby Tiandelin » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:08 pm

YoYoMa wrote:We are facing Tidewalker for the first time tonight and of course I'm going for the adds.

I was thinking of just using my full spell damage tanking set (same one I use against VR). around 520 spell damage unbuffed. Honestly, the +spell damage on my tanking weapon is better than my healing weapon anyway :)

My AoE team is worried that they will pull aggro as they do a fair amount of dps so I'm wondering if this should be fine or not? I plan on having a lock life tap before then toss a heal or two and wait for concecration.


I use my block set to make life easier for my healer, and I never have trouble holding aggro as long as everyone waits till they're on me. I think I might have around 300 spell damage in that set. It's been a while since I checked. Weapon oils are a useful boost.

As long as your AoE team doesn't do something stupid like have a mage blink in and DB/BW at the very start, aggro isn't really an issue. Don't worry about AW either. I'd advise having blessing of sanctuary up, both for damage mitigation and for threat on the critters.

YoYoMa wrote:The other thing I'm wondering is if the raid is pretty much grouped up is the healing trick even necessary? Won't the adds come to the group anyway?


The times I've tried that have been less than successful. Yes, you'll eventually pick up the murlocs with consecrate if you just drop one on the group, but that can take a couple ticks or more. That's enough time for them to have their way with a healer or two. If you want to pick them up that way, I'd advise having a mage frost nova one side so that you can drop a consecrate on them, while all the other free tanks pick up the other side.

Using healing aggro lets you stand out of grave range, which means you never have to worry about getting watery graved. It's certainly possible to do the fight with everyone in range, it's just far more of a pain since you might get graved right before or just after the murlocs come. The healing aggro method also means that you only have two people tanking, which is less stressful on healers and means the other tanks can just beat on the boss to kill him faster.
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Postby YoYoMa » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:31 pm

great, thanks for the feedback.

So as for picking them up, I'm envisioning the group pretty much tightly packed behind the boss. So you are saying concecreate on the group once when they pop. Also have a mage by the stairs to frost nova those so I can run over and concecrate them as well then pull them both together for aoe fun?

One thing that you said was interesting was to stay out of grave range? Somebody else mentioned that they have a group stay out of "combat" from Tidewalker. Is this what you are referring to? Or is there a magical line that seperates people from getting watery graved?
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Postby Tiandelin » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:41 pm

YoYoMa wrote:So as for picking them up, I'm envisioning the group pretty much tightly packed behind the boss. So you are saying concecreate on the group once when they pop. Also have a mage by the stairs to frost nova those so I can run over and concecrate them as well then pull them both together for aoe fun?


It's hard to pick up both groups without a good chance of casualties. I've tried exactly what you described and didn't have any luck with it, but of course I just might suck. :) If you want to pick them up without using healing aggro to accomplish that, I advise just focusing on one side and letting the other tanks handle the other.

YoYoMa wrote:One thing that you said was interesting was to stay out of grave range? Somebody else mentioned that they have a group stay out of "combat" from Tidewalker. Is this what you are referring to? Or is there a magical line that seperates people from getting watery graved?


Yes, there's a magical line that keeps people from getting watery graved. According to Wowhead, the watery grave spell has a 45-yard range, while Morogrim's earthquake has a 50-yard range. So if you're not getting hit by earthquakes, you can't get watery graved either.
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Postby YoYoMa » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:48 pm

Yeah I'd rather not leave things to chance so I'll definitely pop some healing aggro and go from there.

We were thinking of having a warrior challenging shout tank on the off chance that I'm in a grave. But I think seeing the layout of the room will help and maybe getting out of range is even better.

Thanks again, can't wait to try him tonight 8)
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Postby Dragonzbane » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:22 am

So with this strat you guys are killing the Murlocks off to the side?
If so aren't you losing a lot of DPS on the boss?

Our first few times through this fight we went with the 2 sides strat but we were having trouble with the south group of adds.

The last three or so tries we went with the healing agro strat but I'm not consistantly getting agro, though I wasn't healing a lock because we only had one in the raid and he wasn't damaged enough to get solid heals in.

When the Murlocks were not targeting me they seemed to be targeting our Shaman or maybe a Paladin (I'm pretty sure most of our Paladins run with RF up and no salv.

What do you guys do to avoid having another healer get agro over you?
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Postby Warrender » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:34 am

Dragonzbane wrote:So with this strat you guys are killing the Murlocks off to the side?
If so aren't you losing a lot of DPS on the boss?

Our first few times through this fight we went with the 2 sides strat but we were having trouble with the south group of adds.

The last three or so tries we went with the healing agro strat but I'm not consistantly getting agro, though I wasn't healing a lock because we only had one in the raid and he wasn't damaged enough to get solid heals in.

When the Murlocks were not targeting me they seemed to be targeting our Shaman or maybe a Paladin (I'm pretty sure most of our Paladins run with RF up and no salv.

What do you guys do to avoid having another healer get agro over you?


Yes, you do lose DPS but I don't think he has an Enrage to worry about or if he does, we've yet to run up against it.

Warlock is a prime healing target not only because of Fel Armor which boosts our healing on him but also because they can Lifetap down to make our Holy Lights heal for the full amount.
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Postby Tiandelin » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:33 pm

Dragonzbane wrote:What do you guys do to avoid having another healer get agro over you?


Pretty much what Warrender said. Warlocks are the perfect target for you. Fel armor is an amazing boost to your heals, and the fact that they can lifetap down means that you'll never have to worry about overhealing or finding some other target to heal. Be sure to load him up with amplify magic and blessing of light at the least. Even in tanking gear, it'll make you feel like a holy pally in a full healing set.

If you're still worried about other healers, make sure that they all have salv, and offer the following advice to each class:

- Shaman: no chain heals immediately after the earthquake.
- Priest: fade when the earthquake hits.
- Druid: don't toss hots around like crazy while murlocs are incoming.
- Paladin: make sure they don't have RF up.

The downside to this strategy is that if someone other than you heals the warlock, it can easily cause a wipe. Drill it into your healers that nobody other than you should be healing the warlock. Nobody. If done properly, your warlock shouldn't be taking damage from anything anyway, since he'll be out of grave range.

You do lose a little dps on Morogrim this way, but you gain a tremendous amount of stability. It's well worth the minor sacrifice.
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Postby Darus » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:54 am

Ive got all global aggro players gaypiling on me at the top of the stairs, toss a few heals and lay down consecration when they reach. Frostnova, frosttrap, aoe, dead.
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Postby Eloff » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:05 am

This video shows how this strat works.

http://stage6.divx.com/user/SoaDShavo56 ... Tidewalker


I tried it out last night and was amazed at the results. I had stacked about 5-6 pieces of healing gear on, and I think that was TOO much. (The murlocs were wrecking my face, but it was awesome for my mana pool!) I cut back to just my plate gloves, one ring, and the macro for the libram, shield, weapon. The warrior tank died, or we would definitely have taken him down. WTB a second prot pally to tank Morogrim! (He hits really fast and burns through warrior shield blocks and crushes them.)
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Postby Warrender » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:21 am

Eloff wrote:This video shows how this strat works.

http://stage6.divx.com/user/SoaDShavo56 ... Tidewalker


I tried it out last night and was amazed at the results. I had stacked about 5-6 pieces of healing gear on, and I think that was TOO much. (The murlocs were wrecking my face, but it was awesome for my mana pool!) I cut back to just my plate gloves, one ring, and the macro for the libram, shield, weapon. The warrior tank died, or we would definitely have taken him down. WTB a second prot pally to tank Morogrim! (He hits really fast and burns through warrior shield blocks and crushes them.)


You don't really even need healing gear for this fight if people are aware and watch their aggro during the Murlocs. Just killed him again last night using my +block value set and around 425 Spell Damage buffed. No problems getting both packs to aggro me with 2 Holy Lights using this strat.

I did notice I was hurting for mana at times so I might just switch back to the threat set I always use for this fight.
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