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Prince: Problem with agro at the phase 1-2 transition

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Prince: Problem with agro at the phase 1-2 transition

Postby Talmus » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:24 am

This was my second time in Kara. Both times I was the OT for most of the night and this evening I was pushed into healing duty as we had a healer have to leave right before Prince.

We downed Prince the first time two weeks ago with the same tank (Warrior) on try number 4 or 5...the wipes were due to either the tank learning the proper range for the fight or infernal placement.

Last night I think we wiped 8 times before we had to call it and with only a couple exceptions the wipes were all due to the same thing...for some reason right around the phase 1 to phase 2 transition Prince would make a beeline for the ledge. We're all running Omen 2 and it showed the tank with a HUGE threat lead at all times. It didn't seem to matter. Right around the phase 1 to phase 2 transition the Prince would run over to the ledge and go on a rampage.

Has anyone had a problem with this? Could it have been anything the tank was doing (can't see how as he had a huge threat lead but it's worth asking)? Any other ideas?
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:33 am

I've seen with him what I see with absolutely every melee mob so far, and randomly: He walks around away from the tank and back to him for no reason.

Did the tank die on the transition? O.o
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Postby Shirak » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:13 am

I've seen that happen alot. He just runs out then back and I have aggro. I've never had him change threat targets.
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Postby Base » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:19 am

Only thing I can think of is that maybe the tank is moving into an evade spot?

Or someone is overaggroing... but you say that's not the case.
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Postby Talmus » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:34 am

From the responses here - especially the one about him running out and then back and the tank still having agro - I think that the comment about an evade spot could be dead-on. Our tank's new to this and he's definitely had issues with positioning here. Maybe have him scoot out a few feet from the wall?

Also, I think seeing Prince running toward the healers/casters may have panicked some people and made someone do something to screw things up. But no, the tank didn't die on the transition...we actually only lost him twice in the eight wipes...one time at 2% and one time around 45-50%. I blame our 3rd healer that's prot spec'd and 770 bonus healing for those. :oops: I think I'll bring up the position issues though. He's starting at max healing range which I really question (a bit closer wouldn't hurt I don't think), and he's definitely flush to the wall which could be triggering evade issues...I know I've read that going flush to the wall can cause problems with consecration as well.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:46 am

Being knocked back is only an issue if it shoots you out of melee/healing range. Step ahead a bit and the evade bitch is gone.

I've actually used the knockback in my favor once XD Stupid infernals.
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Re: Prince: Problem with agro at the phase 1-2 transition

Postby ldeboer » Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:42 pm

Talmus wrote:This was my second time in Kara. Both times I was the OT for most of the night and this evening I was pushed into healing duty as we had a healer have to leave right before Prince.

We downed Prince the first time two weeks ago with the same tank (Warrior) on try number 4 or 5...the wipes were due to either the tank learning the proper range for the fight or infernal placement.

Last night I think we wiped 8 times before we had to call it and with only a couple exceptions the wipes were all due to the same thing...for some reason right around the phase 1 to phase 2 transition Prince would make a beeline for the ledge. We're all running Omen 2 and it showed the tank with a HUGE threat lead at all times. It didn't seem to matter. Right around the phase 1 to phase 2 transition the Prince would run over to the ledge and go on a rampage.

Has anyone had a problem with this? Could it have been anything the tank was doing (can't see how as he had a huge threat lead but it's worth asking)? Any other ideas?


I assume you are tanking him on the far right as you enter there is a ledge bit that if the tank gets knocked up onto he seems to see as an evade. The tank needs to step forward and he will come back.
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Postby Talmus » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:51 am

We had no problems with the yo-yo Prince this time...just keeping the positioning in mind we were fine.

We did end up having me MT him though after 4 wipes with the warrior. They were going to call it and come back later and I spoke up and asked for one shot. I think I may end up being the designated tank on that fight now...Prince just hits too often for a warrior to be preferred there. Sure, they can tank it just like we can tank the fearing dragon there. The question is if you have both, why do it? Warriors can stance-dance out of fear and Paladins can stay uncrushable even if Prince thrashes and parries. Play to your team's strengths.
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Postby Truthiness » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:13 am

That and we can just turn off auto attack to avoid the parry-gib. I find that exorcism+consecrate+holy shield+judge is more than enough threat for phase 2, especially if you pop wings at the beginning of the phase.
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Postby Talmus » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:30 am

Truthiness wrote:That and we can just turn off auto attack to avoid the parry-gib. I find that exorcism+consecrate+holy shield+judge is more than enough threat for phase 2, especially if you pop wings at the beginning of the phase.


I didn't even turn off auto-attack and AD never kicked in the entire fight.
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Postby Lookit » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:05 am

When I first read the OP, I thought "Uh oh... there's probably a very well-intentioned holy pally there who's thinking 'I'll save my BoP for the tank at the phase 1 -> 2 transition, because that's when he hits hardest'"

:P

Very glad to hear you got it sorted, and grats on tanking that bad boy. It's very true what you say, that success will come to the group that puts aside any "tanking ego" and puts in the best class for the fight.
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Postby Talmus » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:19 am

Lookit wrote:When I first read the OP, I thought "Uh oh... there's probably a very well-intentioned holy pally there who's thinking 'I'll save my BoP for the tank at the phase 1 -> 2 transition, because that's when he hits hardest'"

:P

Very glad to hear you got it sorted, and grats on tanking that bad boy. It's very true what you say, that success will come to the group that puts aside any "tanking ego" and puts in the best class for the fight.


Yeah, after the Prince fight we wiped twice on the dragon that fears...someone suggested that I tank that one and I responded with "NO!". There's a time and place for all kinds of tanks and having a paladin tank something that fears w/o fear ward is a BAD idea. I actually healed from melee range on that one after the two wipes and it worked great...I was able to maintain some healing on the tank when the healers had to reposition since we weren't standing in the same area.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:21 am

Talmus wrote:
Lookit wrote:When I first read the OP, I thought "Uh oh... there's probably a very well-intentioned holy pally there who's thinking 'I'll save my BoP for the tank at the phase 1 -> 2 transition, because that's when he hits hardest'"

:P

Very glad to hear you got it sorted, and grats on tanking that bad boy. It's very true what you say, that success will come to the group that puts aside any "tanking ego" and puts in the best class for the fight.


Yeah, after the Prince fight we wiped twice on the dragon that fears...someone suggested that I tank that one and I responded with "NO!". There's a time and place for all kinds of tanks and having a paladin tank something that fears w/o fear ward is a BAD idea. I actually healed from melee range on that one after the two wipes and it worked great...I was able to maintain some healing on the tank when the healers had to reposition since we weren't standing in the same area.
I'd take a better geared paladin than an average geared warrior for nightbane. The issues with fear can mostly be countered. If your gear is better, go for it anyway
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Postby Talmus » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:30 am

Snake-Aes wrote:
Talmus wrote:
Lookit wrote:When I first read the OP, I thought "Uh oh... there's probably a very well-intentioned holy pally there who's thinking 'I'll save my BoP for the tank at the phase 1 -> 2 transition, because that's when he hits hardest'"

:P

Very glad to hear you got it sorted, and grats on tanking that bad boy. It's very true what you say, that success will come to the group that puts aside any "tanking ego" and puts in the best class for the fight.


Yeah, after the Prince fight we wiped twice on the dragon that fears...someone suggested that I tank that one and I responded with "NO!". There's a time and place for all kinds of tanks and having a paladin tank something that fears w/o fear ward is a BAD idea. I actually healed from melee range on that one after the two wipes and it worked great...I was able to maintain some healing on the tank when the healers had to reposition since we weren't standing in the same area.
I'd take a better geared paladin than an average geared warrior for nightbane. The issues with fear can mostly be countered. If your gear is better, go for it anyway


We had no fear-ward and I did tank Nightbane after MT lost agro (and nightbane ate the other people at the top of the threat list) and it was a positioning nightmare. While I could bubble out of one fear a good stance-dancing warrior is much better there. We're fairly even on the gear too so it's not an issue with that. Honestly it was some inexperienced healing that got us on Nightbane...not watching for the ground aoe and when they were watching not getting back to healing quickly enough. He was fine as the tank on that. Prince on the other hand...4 healers couldn't keep him up (3 1/2 if you ignore me and my 900 healing) in phase 2 whereas 3 healers never even let me hit AD.
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Postby Caelus » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:30 pm

Lookit wrote:When I first read the OP, I thought "Uh oh... there's probably a very well-intentioned holy pally there who's thinking 'I'll save my BoP for the tank at the phase 1 -> 2 transition, because that's when he hits hardest'"

:P

Very glad to hear you got it sorted, and grats on tanking that bad boy. It's very true what you say, that success will come to the group that puts aside any "tanking ego" and puts in the best class for the fight.


I've used bubble while tanking him on 1-2% on Prince just for laughs before when I saw second on threat was an Elem Shammy friend of mine. I said on vent right before I did it "Get ready, kill or be killed" and they were like "huh?". /cast Divine Shield....Prince runs towards the casters.
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