Doubletank R+J

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Postby jere » Fri May 30, 2008 9:57 am

Kelaan wrote:
jere wrote:Not to mention: if they end up changing our version of anticipation like they did warriors in WotLK alpha, then we will need 20 more defense skill from gear anyways.


Can you elaborate on this? How was it changed? (And, I realize it's not set in stone, being alpha.)


Changed from 4 def skill per point to 1% dodge per point for warriors
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Postby Rykis » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:24 pm

jere wrote:
Kelaan wrote:
jere wrote:Not to mention: if they end up changing our version of anticipation like they did warriors in WotLK alpha, then we will need 20 more defense skill from gear anyways.


Can you elaborate on this? How was it changed? (And, I realize it's not set in stone, being alpha.)


Changed from 4 def skill per point to 1% dodge per point for warriors


Where are you getting these talent trees from? I've seen a few floating around thus far, but they were all fake.
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Postby jere » Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:13 pm

Rykis wrote:
jere wrote:
Kelaan wrote:
jere wrote:Not to mention: if they end up changing our version of anticipation like they did warriors in WotLK alpha, then we will need 20 more defense skill from gear anyways.


Can you elaborate on this? How was it changed? (And, I realize it's not set in stone, being alpha.)


Changed from 4 def skill per point to 1% dodge per point for warriors


Where are you getting these talent trees from? I've seen a few floating around thus far, but they were all fake.


I am just going off of the data-mined alpha site. It could be fake I guess: http://wotlk.wikidot.com/

Everyone else seems fine with it for the mean time.

Specifically: http://urlshort.com/wotlk/site/talentline.php?line=163
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Re: Doubletank R+J

Postby MrDuck » Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:53 am

Mazater wrote:
solina wrote:and ~60-65% pure avoidance (of course uncrush).

:shock:

What the...I have only about 50% pure avoidance and I'm running Hyjal :/
Tho' I have truckloads of more stamina than you have
It's not really that hard to reach though, i had about 57% in pre-kara blues and some crafted stuff (head+bracers),just stacked dodge to keep myself uncrushable,matched sme socket bonuses with dodge or defense (usually hald def or dodge and 6stam gems,you know,these rare ones :P) and i was pretty high on avoidance with unbuffed hp around 12k. Pre kara blue gear is underrated imo :P The only thing it lacks is armor :/
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Re: Doubletank R+J

Postby Talmus » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:06 am

MrDuck wrote:
Mazater wrote:
solina wrote:and ~60-65% pure avoidance (of course uncrush).

:shock:

What the...I have only about 50% pure avoidance and I'm running Hyjal :/
Tho' I have truckloads of more stamina than you have
It's not really that hard to reach though, i had about 57% in pre-kara blues and some crafted stuff (head+bracers),just stacked dodge to keep myself uncrushable,matched sme socket bonuses with dodge or defense (usually hald def or dodge and 6stam gems,you know,these rare ones :P) and i was pretty high on avoidance with unbuffed hp around 12k. Pre kara blue gear is underrated imo :P The only thing it lacks is armor :/


Yeah, if you think about it most of us gem for sta once we hit uncrushable. For example, I've got 13 pure sta gems in my gear right now. If I were to go with just blue dodge gems instead that would give me 104 more to dodge for a total of 5.5% more dodge. And that's just from gems. Toss in some enchant changes as well and getting close to 10% more avoidance from only gems/enchants (no gear changes) is certainly possible. The problem is that if you stack dodge for content that you outgear you'll starve yourself of mana and if you stack dodge for progression content then you likely won't have the hp's to survive those times that you don't dodge.

I definitely noticed this as well in pre-kara blues when you're shooting for uncrushability though. You have to gem for dodge or defense when you're trying to become uncrushable, usually shooting for socket bonuses as long as the bonuses give sta/def/avoid (since you're just trying to get the most of all of those things that you can at that point) and your avoidance can easily end up in the mid-50's pushing 60. Then you start to get more gear that focuses on armor/sta/block value/block rating and your avoidance drops some while you can still stay uncrushable thanks to higher block rating.
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Postby Seloei » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:29 am

they changed wotlk anticipation to give +1% dodge per rank instead of 4 defense skill for warriors (last i looked which was a while ago).

Rom and Jul is the 2. hardest opera (BBW is worse since you can't get threat while his being kited). The reason why you died was that romeo had daring and you had poison stacks going up.

More than 490 def is not bad it is GOOD. but not in the form of socketing for it, unless there is no other way to reach uncrushable. When possible i choose def rating over dodge due to the fact that if i happen to have a gear swap i know i have a small "extra room" to wiggle in.

And i caught you in your Curator "offtank gear". Don't use arcane resist gear... While it helps you actually want to get more heals in to get more mana, but then again, it's up to your raid which is more needed.

anyhow, the reason why people were suggesting to get the violet ring was ARMOR! it reduces damage intake on hard hitters and on low hitters also. It's very very good at lower levels and it slows down in the 17k'sh range and is not so good in 20k's.

Also someone suggested the boots from 1. boss in MT, get the ones from heroic BF instead, more armor and some avoidance. Also people very badly underestimate agility, each point of agility is 0.04 more dodge and 2 more armor.
Consider heroic seth shoulders (more avoidance than yours for a trade of small threat loss, you have a big lead in threat anyway atm?)

And... if your not broke you could use a major agility potion + agility food to get uncrushable. food+potion == 55, with kings 60-61, that is an extra 2.4% pure dodge.
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Postby solina » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:41 am

Seloei wrote:anyhow, the reason why people were suggesting to get the violet ring was ARMOR! it reduces damage intake on hard hitters and on low hitters also. It's very very good at lower levels and it slows down in the 17k'sh range and is not so good in 20k's.

Also someone suggested the boots from 1. boss in MT, get the ones from heroic BF instead, more armor and some avoidance. Also people very badly underestimate agility, each point of agility is 0.04 more dodge and 2 more armor.
Consider heroic seth shoulders (more avoidance than yours for a trade of small threat loss, you have a big lead in threat anyway atm?)

And... if your not broke you could use a major agility potion + agility food to get uncrushable. food+potion == 55, with kings 60-61, that is an extra 2.4% pure dodge.


Didn't really mean for this to turn into my personal gear check. It was mostly a mechanics question, and it has been answered, and now I just need R+J to pop up again so I can try it. :)

But that said -
Violet Signet - I'm on it now, esp. now that I have revered version.
Boots - Got H-MT version. Today's H-daily is BF, might try it.
Shoulders - Nobody runs H-Seth, like, ever. But you're right, I do have a pretty sizable threat lead, except when I'm bringing some crazy enhance shammies.
Consumables - I'm herb/alch. I run Adepts+Defense, Adepts+Mastery, or Blinding Light, depending on my mood. My druid is an enchanter, so free wizard oil. And I've been enjoying the hell out of blackened sporefish lately (20 sta + 8 mp5). I'm a good 3% over uncrush when I'm in the right gear. If you look right now I'm probably in my AoE farming set. (Which, I can't find anyone to make a damn felsteel spike, and it's driving me crazy.)
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