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prince problems

Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, Opera, Curator, Illhoof, Aran, Netherspite, Chess, Prince, Nightbane

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Postby Tellysaren » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:02 am

I was tanking Prince yesterday (got him down to 19% and 21% before we called it) and some of the raiders said they had never seen a pally tank it before, only a well-geared druid because he could ignore the crushings with his high health and armor and such. I was really confused by this, and if you could enlighten me on what the point of blocking a crushing is.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:05 am

Tellysaren wrote:I was tanking Prince yesterday (got him down to 19% and 21% before we called it) and some of the raiders said they had never seen a pally tank it before, only a well-geared druid because he could ignore the crushings with his high health and armor and such. I was really confused by this, and if you could enlighten me on what the point of blocking a crushing is.
Blockign a crushing means it wasn't a crushing at all. So you took (damage)-blockValue instead of (damage)*1,5


Actually, damage on warriors and paladins are more predictable, and lighter on the healer mana, because of the uncrushability that druids don't have.
On prince, specifically, he attacks so fast that no warrior can be uncrushable against him pratically. Paladins on the other hand will see the holy shield last it's full duration all the time, being uncrushable, and therefore taking less damage than the other tanks.
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Postby Tellysaren » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:25 am

So, if druid is at 75% armor reduction, he will take Hit*1.5*.25=Hit*.375

Paladin with 60% armor reduction Hit*.4-230(block value)

So the druid would take less damage unless my block value was .025% of the hit, or am I looking at this wrong?
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:27 am

Tellysaren wrote:So, if druid is at 75% armor reduction, he will take Hit*1.5*.25=Hit*.375

Paladin with 60% armor reduction Hit*.4-230(block value)

So the druid would take less damage unless my block value was .025% of the hit, or am I looking at this wrong?
Factor in your avoidance vs his., and the number of crushings he'll take during the fight. Hit per Hit, druids do take little damage compared to us.

Actually, just parse a wws of each.
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Postby Tellysaren » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:28 am

Ok I think I kinda get it now, thanks.
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Postby jere » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:42 am

Tellysaren wrote:So, if druid is at 75% armor reduction, he will take Hit*1.5*.25=Hit*.375

Paladin with 60% armor reduction Hit*.4-230(block value)

So the druid would take less damage unless my block value was .025% of the hit, or am I looking at this wrong?


Don't forget to account for the fact that a druid will take 15% crushings.

If both tanks have 50% avoidance:
Paladin: .5*0 + .5*.4*.094x-b = 0.188x-b
Druid: .5*0 + .35*.25x + .15*1.5*.25x = 0.14375x

Crossover: b = 0.04425x
10k unmitigated hit => 442.50 block
15k unmitigated hit => 663.75 block

If both tanks have 60% avoidance:
Paladin: .6*0 + .4*.4*.094x-b = 0.1504x-b
Druid: .6*0 + .25*.25x + .15*1.5*.25x = 0.11875x

Crossover: b = 0.03165x
10k unmitigated hit => 316.50 block
15k unmitigated hit => 474.75 block

Differences:
1. Ardent Defender - This makes a big difference in fights like prince where hits are small enough to not leapfrog
2. Strings of crushes: paladins don't take these unless they are asleep. Occasionally, one or two get through per fight due to lag/cooldown/duration of holy shield, but you should never get a string of crushes unless you are being silly.
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Postby Sarutankah » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:30 pm

As I posted in the successes thread – was able to tank him in my current gear (as per sig). Popped a nightmare seed at start of P2 just to give healers 30 secs of extra breathing room. We are all a little bit Kara geared with blues and maybe the odd green.
My only problem was going out of mana a bit in P1 and having to downrank consecrate. Totally forgot to pop wings on Prince or Illhoof, too overawed by the occasion lol. (They usually see me as an offtank cos I’m a paladin :roll: )

Through all but the transition into p2 I was at around 14.5k fully buffed (no priests) so it’s just a matter of healers not falling asleep to be honest.
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Postby Kelaan » Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:34 pm

jere wrote:Don't forget to account for the fact that a druid will take 15% crushings.


... which means that the druid has a 2.25% chance of getting two crushes in a row. In a several minute fight, said druid probably takes more than 100 hits, which means ~2-3 instances of back to back crushes. Combine that with parry-hasted attacks, or specials like Thrash, and that sounds pretty hairy.
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Postby Tellysaren » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:50 am

By the way, as a follow-up, we managed to down him the next week. Popped Ironshield pot, Nightmare seed, and turtle trinket at the start of phase 2, and we managed to not lose anyone. The healers were impressed with how easy I was to heal in phase 2 also :D
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Postby solina » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:46 am

WTB [Concrete Boots], PST

I had a slightly different problem with Prince last night. How do you stop his knockback from sliding you up and down the wall? In one attempt I ended up too close to the range group, and the healers ate a shadow nova.
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Postby sweeney » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:15 am

Look for notches in the wall wherever you position him -- if there's a little V shape that you can put your back into (regardless of how small it is), typically you won't be moved around when knockback hits.

Sometimes just being exactly square with the wall works too, I think.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:17 am

Sweeney wrote:Sometimes just being exactly square with the wall works too, I think.
It does. Just get the feeling to proper position and you'll hardly move an inch.
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Postby solina » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:55 pm

Snake-Aes wrote:
Sweeney wrote:Sometimes just being exactly square with the wall works too, I think.
It does. Just get the feeling to proper position and you'll hardly move an inch.


Hrmm.. k. This whole "looking at the mob" thing (or rather, looking at the mob's crotch through a semi-transparent wall) is still relavtively new to me, after 3 years of looking at green bars rise and never seeing the fight at all.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:21 pm

solina wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:
Sweeney wrote:Sometimes just being exactly square with the wall works too, I think.
It does. Just get the feeling to proper position and you'll hardly move an inch.


Hrmm.. k. This whole "looking at the mob" thing (or rather, looking at the mob's crotch through a semi-transparent wall) is still relavtively new to me, after 3 years of looking at green bars rise and never seeing the fight at all.
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Postby Kelaan » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:42 pm

solina wrote:This whole "looking at the mob" thing (or rather, looking at the mob's crotch through a semi-transparent wall) is still relavtively new to me, after 3 years of looking at green bars rise and never seeing the fight at all.


I found that (especially on Nightbane) a top-down camera angle on my character helped a TON in positioning him.
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