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After kara?

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After kara?

Postby Owneri » Tue May 06, 2008 12:37 am

Hey, I'm sorry if thsi is the wrong place but I'd like to know what our guild should try after we've done kara `like 5 times?
Yeah, so what to try next?
And what after that? (Just so I dont have to ask again :>)
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Postby Rorshach » Tue May 06, 2008 1:03 am

Gruul's Lair and Zul'Aman followed by Magtheridon.
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Postby Owneri » Tue May 06, 2008 2:49 am

Rorshach wrote:Gruul's Lair and Zul'Aman followed by Magtheridon.

Thanks :>
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Postby sweeney » Tue May 06, 2008 3:16 am

If your healers have no problem keeping you up on Prince and you've got an OT with at least Kara tanking gear, ZA bear and eagle bosses are the way to start moving up the progression ladder. After you get good at those fights you can beat the timer regularly, giving some nice extra loot.

Gruul's Lair isnt hard but you get logistical issues -- if you could theoretically field 2 kara raids with a couple of people left over, you're definately ready to start working on it. If you can get over the organizational hurdles these fights once learned are really nice for quickly gearing up new recruits and folks who haven't been through Kara much.
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Postby ulushnar » Tue May 06, 2008 3:21 am

Yeah, the dumbest thing Blizzard did in TBC was to make the entry-level raid instance a 10-man. Gruul's worth it though if you can get the people. If you can't then just work on the first few bosses in ZA.
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Postby Cearn » Tue May 06, 2008 4:55 am

Ulushnar wrote:Yeah, the dumbest thing Blizzard did in TBC was to make the entry-level raid instance a 10-man. Gruul's worth it though if you can get the people. If you can't then just work on the first few bosses in ZA.


I am indeed a bc-starter, but wasn't blackrock spire the starting raid-instance pre bc and a 10-man as well?
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Postby Blowhole » Tue May 06, 2008 5:46 am

Cearn wrote:
Ulushnar wrote:Yeah, the dumbest thing Blizzard did in TBC was to make the entry-level raid instance a 10-man. Gruul's worth it though if you can get the people. If you can't then just work on the first few bosses in ZA.


I am indeed a bc-starter, but wasn't blackrock spire the starting raid-instance pre bc and a 10-man as well?


I think everyone considered UBRS a regular dungeon that just required 10 people. The loot was on par with what you would find in other 5 man dungeons like Strat and Scholo.

The beginning raids back then were Zul'Gurub and Molten Core... MC being a 40 man and ZG being a 20 man. But back then you could go straight to MC when you dinged 60 and had dungeon blues on, not like you can today. You really aren't doing 25 man content now without having Kara on farm. It would have been the equivalent of HAVING to do ZG for a while before setting foot into 40 man content like Molten Core or Onyxia.
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Postby Dakiros » Tue May 06, 2008 5:52 am

UBRS was 15 in the early goings, Scholo and Strat were both 10. ZG wasn't even in the game early on, it was added in a patch so the first "real" raid instances were MC and Onyxia.
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Postby Kelaan » Tue May 06, 2008 9:30 am

I think it's not 10 vs 25, it's N vs not-a-multiple-of-N. 5/10 man groups for UBRS/etc could be aggregated for a 40-person Molten Core group, and have roughly the right composition.

If you have 2 Karazhan groups, that leaves you with 20/25 for Gruul... and if you get another 10 people, that means you have 5 leftover. If the larger raid size were 30 (or even 20) instead of 25, I think that would have made the Kara->Other transition less of a hurdle.

You're still going to need to herd more cats, though. ;)

If you can farm Karazhan, then:
- Continue to farm it untilyou can do it in one night (or less) per week. You probably can still get gear upgrades for people there (or offset upgrades like healing pieces for you), and 20 badges every week is a nice thing.
- Start working on Zul'Aman, as others have said. It'll be a harsh awakening for your tanks, most likely, if they're complacent about Prince... and if not, it might gib them ;) Still, once you can do that, you can work on executing it faster -- and will, as DPS and tanks and healers get more geared.
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Postby ulushnar » Tue May 06, 2008 9:34 am

Kelaan wrote:I think it's not 10 vs 25, it's N vs not-a-multiple-of-N. 5/10 man groups for UBRS/etc could be aggregated for a 40-person Molten Core group, and have roughly the right composition.


As was mentioned, until about 1.8/1.9 UBRS was 15 man and Strat/Scholo were 10-man. I remember we used to have "Class Raids" (one member of each class) going to Strat/Scholo to farm set parts. 15 divides as well into 40 as 10 does into 25.
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Postby Mordinm » Tue May 06, 2008 9:58 am

Scholo and strath were always designed to be 5 man instances. All the quests in them cannot be completed in a raid. Most people just wanted the gear though so you almost always ended up with a 10 man mindless zerg that just blew though the place.

UBRS was about the same. The instance was about balanced for 10 men but everyone brought 15 and rolled over everything.

Most people don't consider UBRS to be an "entry raid" simply because it required next to no coordination and did not drop epics for most if not all of its useful lifespan. It was just another pug instance.
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Postby uke » Tue May 06, 2008 10:20 am

Mordinm wrote:Most people don't consider UBRS to be an "entry raid" simply because it required next to no coordination and did not drop epics for most if not all of its useful lifespan. It was just another pug instance.


That, and UBRS is now forever associated with "LEEEROOOYYYYY!!!!"
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Postby Cosmoz » Tue May 06, 2008 2:08 pm

Kara --> first bosses in ZA --> Gruul --> mag --> rest of ZA.

thats how we did it.

the problem with ZA is, it requers 100% teamwork. if 1 out of 10 fails at this, its very likely a wipe. (unless everyone is outgearing the instance)
gruuls is not very much teamwork, not at gruul himself, but a little bit more on the bossfight befor gruul. magt is also somewhat a big teamwork fight... but still, if just 20 people do what they are suposed to, you can do it. in ZA its 10/10 who has to know what to do, thats why it is harder.
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Postby Aleriya » Tue May 06, 2008 2:18 pm

A guild on my server did it like this:

Kara (+badge gear) --> Bear and Eagle boss (ZA) --> Rage Winterchill (Hyjal) --> The Lurker Below (SSC) --> Leotheras (SSC) --> Lynx and Dragonhawk boss (ZA) --> Anetheron (Hyjal) --> Hexlord and Zul'jin (ZA)

Kind of odd, but it worked 0_O
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Postby Cosmoz » Tue May 06, 2008 2:26 pm

they skipper gruul? o.O gruul has kinda nice rewards compared to how easi he is/fast the raid is. I mean, 8-10 T4/T4-quality epics in way less then 1h? (I guess 30 min is a good time for a none-overgeared run without wipes) thats a lot of good epics for just 30 min :/
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