Not enough Spelldamage?

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Not enough Spelldamage?

Postby Verb » Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:23 pm

I've been reading this site religiously. After healbotting since TBC, I really want to tank. I picked up some kara gear from PUGs when I was still holy, but I'm still not where I want to be in karazhan!

5-6 of my RL friends and I started our kara this past reset. Myself and a Feral were the tanks, and I let him MT since I was scared about wiping the raid. (probably a fear leftover from when raids were 40 people). OT as a paladin sucks, don't do it.

When we finally get to a boss I can tank (Curator, I swapped gear to heal on Maiden and Big Bad Wolf), I find that I'm losing aggro to a hunter, somehow? We were operating under the assumption that 2nd on threat = hateful bolt, but how'd he pull aggro?

We downed Curator by (shock) letting the druid tank, and I healed, again.

Illhoof was the last boss we tried of the night. We wiped when I was on kil'rek and the imps with the druid on illhoof. Second try I tanked everything. It was going super smooth I think, but somehow I lost aggro AGAIN, to a mage this time!

What the heck, do I just not have enough +spell damage for this? I was rolling with a wizard oil and this:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... rak&n=Verb

I'm 10k from the glad gavel, and i'll get the s2 glad shield (yay situational armor) on tuesday.

What was I doing wrong? I pulled with an AW and my shield, kept conc and holy shield up, I was even chain judging righteousness.

*sigh* I'm downtrodden on this, and I can't see what I was doing wrong.

I searched for 10-15 before posting, so I don't *think* there's any other threads like this...

Thanks for your time,
-Verb
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Postby Bludusk » Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:32 pm

172 spell damage is pretty low. I would suggest enchanting your sword with +40 spell damage if you're going to be raid tanking again before you get the S1 mace.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:29 pm

well, regardless of spell damage, the hunter was an ass by pulling aggro, if he's threat capped he should just go kill a flare with the rest of the team.
170 spell damage is rather low indeed, most succesfull tankadins have about 200-250 buffed early in kara(continuum+oil+40 spell damage).
While fine for curator, you're still kinda fragile(uncrushability and about 1k unbuffed hp and you'll be golden, go spam botanica :D).
And save your wings for the evocation ;) Being a pure damage-to-threat tank class, you will get full benefit from the evocation(warriors whine a lot)
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Postby Aeverius » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:19 am

Try a Greater Arcane Elixir in conjunction with your wizard oil, it's another 35 spelldamage. I generally run one of those in conjunction with an Elixir of Major Fortitude.

If you have some cash, you can also try a Flask of Blinding Light for 80 additional Holy damage. To my mind, that's a bit extreme for Kara, but the option is there.
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Postby Verb » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:47 am

Thanks for the replies everyone.

In hindsight, I should have been judging Crusader at the first sign of aggro loss, d'oh!

I'm getting the S1 mace this week, and hopefully badge pants by saturday! I'm so excited!

-Verb
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Postby Arees » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:01 pm

You dps should not even touch curator when the flare are out... once he starts to evocate, have all dps but 1, maybe 2 switch to curator while the others take out the last flare and then switch to curator. Also, if you have a warlock, make sure he throws up curse of doom when there is about 1 min left until he evocates. Basically you and the MT (assuming you OT it again) should easily be 30k threat above the dps on curator by the first time he evocates. Also, if your hunter is pumping out that much dps then he should be doing FD every time its up. Give him salv if you have to.

Also, make sure you have righteous fury up. I know that's probably not what it was.... but we've all forgotten to put it up at some point.
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Re: Not enough Spelldamage?

Postby darklight » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:50 am

Verb wrote:When we finally get to a boss I can tank (Curator, I swapped gear to heal on Maiden and Big Bad Wolf), I find that I'm losing aggro to a hunter, somehow? We were operating under the assumption that 2nd on threat = hateful bolt, but how'd he pull aggro?

We downed Curator by (shock) letting the druid tank, and I healed, again.


As another said, noone should be DPSing curator except tank. Personally with my group we don't even use an OT/bolt tank. As long as your healers pay attention its not an issue. Also, I found that DPSing curator causes the flares to come quicker which puts more pressure on dps and healers for the flare management.

With noone attacking (NO PETS too), you dropping concs and just doing normal low budget mana rotations you should be 30-40k threat above anyone, during evocation toss your shield and use your wings. There should be no reason anyone comes close unless you brought like a t6 geared out dpser with you? Perhaps then they could possible close the gap during an evocation.

Verb wrote:Illhoof was the last boss we tried of the night. We wiped when I was on kil'rek and the imps with the druid on illhoof. Second try I tanked everything. It was going super smooth I think, but somehow I lost aggro AGAIN, to a mage this time!


If the mage AOE'd yeah that would have done it. Specially if their AOE hit illhoof. Mages and locks need to watch their aoe if they are targetting imps too close to Ilhoof. It might also help if they do not pass the center of the circle when aoeing and the tank with ilhoof stand directly between the portals. This way any aoe done will not go outside of the circle and hit him.


From your 2 experiences your biggest issue I think is your DPSers. They need to learn the fights better and then you won't have any issues. Bosskillers.com is a good place to find general strats. Its tailored more to Warrior tanks, but it at least can give DPS insight on what they should NOT be doing.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:08 am

Darklight it doesn't happen much like that.

Curator's flares have a fixed income, no matter what you do to curator, he pops a flare every 10~ seconds untill he enrages/evocates.

You want at least 50% of your mana to burn during evocation to keep a healthy threat lead(you probably won't even need to generate more till the next evocate if the dps isn't overgeared)


On Illhoof...yeah it really works better to just aoe everything down. If you're taking much damage, put a melee to tank-kill Kil'Rek. AoErs should be either Seeding Illhoof or hitting everything. Threat on Illhoof has never been an issue for the aoers AFAIK(I've played both roles, warlock and tankadin, with various levels of gear on both). They should be salved anyway and it's expected to take damage from the imps, there's no way around it for the aoers. On Illhoof you have the bonus of getting first aggro on the imps, nothing more.
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Postby darklight » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:33 am

[quote="Snake-Aes"]Darklight it doesn't happen much like that.

Curator's flares have a fixed income, no matter what you do to curator, he pops a flare every 10~ seconds untill he enrages/evocates.
/quote]


I thought so too at first but honestly the past few runs we've had flares come at 10,12,14,12,10 second intervals. We "noticed" (keyword noticed) that they came at 8,10,9,10,8 when we had DPS on curator. I thought at first it was my timer off, but others said their timers were like that too. After the second time of this happening we started keeping track of the flare intervals and to us it really seemed to come slower when noone touched curator.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:58 am

I do weekly badgazan races of 2~ hours, and our dps can kill the flares in about 5 seconds...dpsing curator for the other 5 when finally a flare spawns. It's really just your perception ._.

He always burns 10% mana per flare, and always evocate exactly at same intervals.
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Postby sweeney » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:09 am

Independent of the fact that if he was DPSing Curator he's doing the fight wrong, hunters HAVE FEIGN DEATH.

My wife's BM hunter can pull aggro off me on a single target boss fight basically at will -- but she never does.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:29 am

He was a hurtful soaker. Catching up may be hard after an evocation.
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Postby Verb » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:57 pm

Got the arena mace, up to 290 spelldamage unbuffed :D

Now to work on the blasted shoulder slots :(
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Postby Tankadon » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:28 pm

probably a dumb question but are you making sure you're judging crusader first? should help with buffing the damage from your judges, conc and holy shield.
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Postby Arees » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:22 pm

Tankadon wrote:probably a dumb question but are you making sure you're judging crusader first? should help with buffing the damage from your judges, conc and holy shield.


If I judge crusader I find myself passing out warrior MT way to quickly on threat once curator starts to evocate. I just keep wisdom up... it also helps the dps get a little mana back in between flares as well. Also since there is no damage being done to the raid the healers wand him for mana during evo after throwing dots up. We usually get him down fast enough where he only evocates twice.

**edit**
just noticed the OP was talking about when he tried to tank curator. Yeah... in that case judge crusader and maybe switch to wisdom when you get a good threat lead to help out the dps some.
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