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Level of Gear to AOE Tank Kara

Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, Opera, Curator, Illhoof, Aran, Netherspite, Chess, Prince, Nightbane

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Level of Gear to AOE Tank Kara

Postby Refute » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:03 pm

I know many here have enjoyed the experience of AOE tanking Kara and pretty much bringing along just one tank for the whole ride.

My question is, however, is what type of gear must one have to be able to do this? Or more importantly, what would you all say are some key stats you want to have

- Uncrittable
- Uncrushable
- Unbuffed HP at what?

And so forth. My friends and I are all rerolls and possess a pretty solid skill level with a lot of experience raiding upper end content. However, we were wanting to hit up Kara AOE style but I wanted to ensure my gear would be appropriate before hand. :)

Thanks!
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Postby Sarima » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:25 pm

I would also like to know the answer to this question, although I assume that uncrushability is a must if you are to solotank Attumen (from the top of my head I'm guessing that's the only bossfight where there are 2 mobs on you that can crush?) Uncritability goes without saying...

Also, what amount of armor would be healthy to have? What did you guys have when you first succesfully tried to solotank it?
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:42 pm

The problem with these questions is that there isn't really a fixed answer, it depends on your group. Regardless, you should tank Kara "normally" a couple of times before trying to go the AoE route. As you're clearing, see how comfortable you are with your survivability and go from there.

AoE isn't an all or nothing proposition...it can mean anything from "I tank the Stallions on the way or Attumen 2 at a time" (doable as soon as you're geared enough to MT Kara anyway) to "I tank the entire room of melee Ethereals at once" (I haven't tried this myself, but I've heard T6 tankadins say it's pretty taxing even in their gear).

For what it's worth, when I stopped doing Kara initially I was still double-tanking it (T4-level gear, pre-2.2 stam levels...though I did single-tank Attumen at least once), and when I started doing it for badges a was easily solo-tanking it (mid to late T5, including some badge gear). So yeah, the transition point is somewhere in between.
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Postby Refute » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:55 pm

Thanks for your comments. And I completely understand that these questions are rather subjective. I suppose what I was after is you want at least ________ .

A foundation is really what I was after - not a 100% guide to being able to do it, per se. Again, we have a skilled group and I have some ideas in my head of what I may need, but I wanted to see what more experienced tankadins who have done it thought.

And lastly, regarding your clarification of AOE tanking, I simply meant being able to do Kara without bringing in a 2nd tank. We will have 2 priests that can help with shackles when needed, but doing Kara with 1 tank from start to finish was mainly the point I was after.
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Postby Pizbit » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:42 pm

I'll toss in at least 15k hp buffed and healers with 1400+ and for DPS to focus fire down the sorcerus shades before attacking normal spell shades(due to the AoE healing load on healers)
Probably 45+% pure avoidance.
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Postby Duzzit » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:36 am

I did it in my gear, minus the legs, shield, trinket and one or 2 more things.
(first solo tanked attu+horse with the shield from botanica >.> ). if your group is good at what it does(healing/dps) then you can do it with fairly weakish gear.
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Postby BlackHand » Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:27 am

I managed to tank all of kara in my current gear, the off-tank was a 10 year old that plays a feral druid with a DPS mentality (he wasn't doing bad, but his tanking gear aint great and he needs some tips on when to use swipe cause he kept breaking CC) so I aoe tanked out of necessity (had an arms warrior equip a shield for netherspite and he handled the red beam fine).

The only problems were the packs with the mana draining worms before curator and those ice tomb mobs before opera (the DPS guys aren't top, lucky the healers are doing pretty good).

We used CC whenever we could but I ended up tanking 2-3 mobs at a time anyway.
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Postby Jobah » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:47 pm

Just feel it out and pay attention to your mana. Holding agro isnt the problem, having the survivability is the problem. It took a little pressure from my healers to start doing this, i was scared at first. One thing i will warn is be careful of the chargers on the way to attune. I learned my lessona couple times the hard way cuz people in my group would be like "kill the other guys, they heal." But eh, ignore them, killing the chargers is 1st priority. If your healers get feared your gonna die.

I said pay attention to your mana because... its usually a good way to tell how easy of a time you're having with the tanking. If your mana is constantly full, obviously you're taking alot of hits (maybe too many). If you find yourself tanking and going oom, the targets are too easy and if you can tank more, you should.

I was full epics the first time i aoe tanked kara. about 55% pure avoidance with 15k hp. I had a buddy offtank for me one time with less gear than me. He was about 13k hp unbuffed and probably about 45% pure avoidance with crappy block. He wanted to test his gear and i actually ended up having him do most of the tanking. He had no problem solo aoe tanking the majority of the instance. However... we had some l33t healers, 2100 holy pally and a 1900 resto druid. So yeah, thats my 2 words.
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Postby guillex » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:13 pm

Duzzit wrote:if your group is good at what it does(healing/dps) then you can do it with fairly weakish gear.


The problem that I have with this statement is thus: If you're a fairly weak tank, and you haven't done all that you can do to maximize your threat and avoidance, then your group is carrying you. That can lead to more bad situations than good ones.

If you're looking to solo tank all of Kara, make sure that you have the best gear that is available to you. Badge pieces, previous Kara run pieces, ZA loot if you've run it... When your group is yelling at you to pull more because you're not taking enough damage, you'll know.

I'd say dive in and try it out. Bring along a feral druid so that they can dps if an OT isn't needed.
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Postby BlackHand » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:37 am

Guillex wrote:When your group is yelling at you to pull more because you're not taking enough damage, you'll know.


Perhaps it's a post more suited for the success thread, but it's relevant here too I guess. Pulled 3 Etheral Thieves without actually planning to. I apologised on vent after and I only heard jokes like: "We'll forgive you for speeding things up." It made my day.
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Postby Thanehand » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:46 am

BlackHand wrote:
Guillex wrote:When your group is yelling at you to pull more because you're not taking enough damage, you'll know.


Perhaps it's a post more suited for the success thread, but it's relevant here too I guess. Pulled 3 Etheral Thieves without actually planning to. I apologised on vent after and I only heard jokes like: "We'll forgive you for speeding things up." It made my day.


Hehe...

Get everyone to stand back, run in and bubble, collect the lot, then start aoeing :D

You have to time this REALLY well tho...
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Postby Thanehand » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:51 am

Refute wrote:Thanks for your comments. And I completely understand that these questions are rather subjective. I suppose what I was after is you want at least ________ .

A foundation is really what I was after - not a 100% guide to being able to do it, per se. Again, we have a skilled group and I have some ideas in my head of what I may need, but I wanted to see what more experienced tankadins who have done it thought.

And lastly, regarding your clarification of AOE tanking, I simply meant being able to do Kara without bringing in a 2nd tank. We will have 2 priests that can help with shackles when needed, but doing Kara with 1 tank from start to finish was mainly the point I was after.


Back to the OP

I started AOEing Kara with:

12K unbuffed health
493 Defence (490 technically)
13k Armour
roughtly 48% avoidance. Yes this means I was uncrittable but a long way from Uncrushable. (83ish % with HS up, with Badge Libram)

We had 2 Priests shield/shackles, and a shammy with GoA totem which helped.

The only boss I couldn't do like this was the Prince.
Note: our healers were mostly geared from Kara already, would recommend a lot more health/avoidance for aoeing if yours aren't.

With roughly those stats you should be able to do it normally tho.
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Postby Refute » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:16 am

Thanehand wrote:
Refute wrote:Thanks for your comments. And I completely understand that these questions are rather subjective. I suppose what I was after is you want at least ________ .

A foundation is really what I was after - not a 100% guide to being able to do it, per se. Again, we have a skilled group and I have some ideas in my head of what I may need, but I wanted to see what more experienced tankadins who have done it thought.

And lastly, regarding your clarification of AOE tanking, I simply meant being able to do Kara without bringing in a 2nd tank. We will have 2 priests that can help with shackles when needed, but doing Kara with 1 tank from start to finish was mainly the point I was after.


Back to the OP

I started AOEing Kara with:

12K unbuffed health
493 Defence (490 technically)
13k Armour
roughtly 48% avoidance. Yes this means I was uncrittable but a long way from Uncrushable. (83ish % with HS up, with Badge Libram)

We had 2 Priests shield/shackles, and a shammy with GoA totem which helped.

The only boss I couldn't do like this was the Prince.
Note: our healers were mostly geared from Kara already, would recommend a lot more health/avoidance for aoeing if yours aren't.

With roughly those stats you should be able to do it normally tho.


Thanks, this was very helpful. I should be uncrittable, 12k~ hp unbuffed, and I would imagine I'll get uncrushable early on. Our healers are a ahead of the game, really. They have about every crafted piece of healing gear that can be had and the rest filled in with heroic pieces - I think they both are around 1500~ healing with a solid mp5.

Our third healer will be a holy pally and most of our dps will be caster/AOE friendly - so we should have lots of CC available, when needed.

Early on, I suppose my main concerns are being able to double tank Attumen and then Moroes - hopefully we can make due. :)
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Postby 2ndNin » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:30 am

I AOE tank Kara in my current gear with no major issues (only thing I don't is the Skeletal ushers,for obvious reasons :D), this includes the groups of 5 elites + wandering elite + pack of non-elites on the way to moroes. I have tanked 5 of the Ethereals on the way to Netherspite (that was kindof scary, was only planning on pulling 2, but shield got 3 and I body pulled 2 :D, now regularly deliberately pull 4).

Up to Curator can be pretty much AOE tanked in D3 type gear, you might find it hard but its doable, your healers will have heart attacks. In Badge gear you can AoE tank everything, just be careful (the 3 mobs just after chess for example, bad plan the AoE tank them, again I have done it but the incoming damage is very high). Really its not a matter of you the tank, its a matter of your healers, you will easily take 40-150K damage in an AoE fight, barring being at the low end, and using Lay on Hands you aren't really that important anymore, its whether your healers can heal enough such that incoming damage is healed, or doesn't eat into your buffer (health).
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Postby WolveSight » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:23 am

my first ever trip to Kara I MTed with only blue instance gear that got me to uncrit/uncrush. The plan on Attumen was for me to tank him, and the OT to tank Midnight. Well, unfortunately, the OT died in 2 hits (the raid lead never checked his gear, to which he found he was crushable and slightly crittable, oops). So after they killed a healer and another dps (and another dpser chickened out and ran out of the instance to save himself) I picked up Midnight and tanked them both to a successful kill. This was with only about 10.5k health unbuffed and uncrit/unchrushable.

I started doing full AoE tank runs through kara after getting just a few drops there. I'd really suggest getting the badge rewards as fast as possible though because they make a huge difference. Just make sure your group knows what you're going to do, and is competent/ready for it. I wouldn't advise trying it until your group (not just you) has a few runs and some gear to try blowing the place apart. That being said, there's nothing better than hearing your OT complain about being bored because he can't pull aggro off of you and is just left swinging at stuff. :)
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