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Prince Safe Spots?

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Prince Safe Spots?

Postby Immune » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:19 pm

My guild and i have just started kara (i am main tank), and have been in 2 times over the past 2 weeks. We WAAAY exceeded my expectataions as my only goal going in was to take down midnight ( i thought we were undergeared). We ended up (many wipes later) clearing all the way to shade before everyone had to go. the second time we downed everyone in 1 shot (except opera((wizard of oz)) because no one knew what to do when it started) up to netherspite. we attempted prince one time and were unsucessful due to a mishap with the infernal caller, but the guild said there were things called "safe spots" on prince where infernals dont land (which is not where i was tanking him)

ok thats some background on where i stand. my question is:

Are these "safe spots" real? cause i think they are a load of crap.

here is my profile just for the hell of it:
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Nathrezim&n=Immune
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Postby fructi » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:51 pm

there are no safespots. Its so totally random where they drop. Even a well equiped raid can wipe on him just due to bad luck
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Postby Lisilia » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:55 pm

in my experience there are indeed a few spots where no elementals are thought to drop and i never had one drop there but i dont like using the safe spots

mainly because the ones i know are near the wall, there are line of sight issues and second those safe spots usually makes people not worry about elementals
you still have to worry about elementals a lot!
in my experience it worked better to just do the fight like it's supposed to be rather than use "safe spots"
also, thats a god training for your raid ;) people have to think, not just stand in one place

assign one ranged a raid marker and let him look for good positions to stand
also let him tell you if you have to move the prince


as a side note: are you uncrushable? my quick calculations said you are not but i might be wrong.
if you are not: get uncrushable, fast!
Oh crap! Righteous Fury!
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Postby rodos » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:05 pm

Our guild uses "safe spots" and have found them to be quite safe if people are still alert, call infernals on voice chat etc. The spots are against the outer wall, and are show on the Wowwiki article.

There are some range and LoS issues but they're easily overcome by having the tank and the healers talk to each other - Tank: "How's that?" Healers: "No, we're standing too far out. Move out a bit so we can sneak in."

Once you get the positioning it becomes tank-and-spank for everyone except melee dps and shadow priests. SPriests because Mind Flay range is less than the Shadow Nova range so the have to back off on Enfeeble, and melee because they can still get stuck in an infernal drop, or get cut off from the group. Our raid only has one of each, so it's not really a problem for us.
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Postby Invisusira » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:13 pm

There are NO safe spots. None.

You can get lucky sometimes. But there are NO places where you will 100% guaranteed never get an infernal.
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Postby Canuun » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:19 pm

Relying on "safe spots" is begging to wipe repeatedly because you can't react to bad infernal placement. The best tactic is to be situationally aware and have good communication.
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Postby bubblecannon » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:30 pm

With a high TPS, decently mitigated tank and good raid DPS prince is an absolute walk in the park.

If you have neither of the above, the fight is actually quite tricky. Phase 3 with low TPS/DPS is pretty hard to survive.

Our healers are pretty solid, so on this fight I actually gear for lower avoidance to get a crap load of holy shield procs and boost tps through the roof.

Each block with say BoSanc and ret aura up and 300 SD is

26*1.9 + 46*1.9 + (155+((300+219)*0.1))*1.3*1.9 ~= 647 Threat.

Change your gearset to a low avoidance, high block rate, high block value gear set (even with lower stamina) and you can significantly increase your TPS. It lets your DPS go absolutely bananas and you'll down the bugger in a few mins.
(Protip: bring a resto drood if you're gonna try this - they rock for pallys)
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Postby Everlight » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:49 pm

Fructi wrote:there are no safespots. Its so totally random where they drop. Even a well equiped raid can wipe on him just due to bad luck


Wrong. Watch carefully next time the Infernals land, they do not land randomly at all - there are a fixed number of locations they can land at. Which of those locations are selected is random, yes, but not the locations.

Invisusira wrote:There are NO safe spots. None.

You can get lucky sometimes. But there are NO places where you will 100% guaranteed never get an infernal.


Also wrong. If you stand looking out from the door, there are two Infernals that spawn along the right wall - their positions are fixed. A raid standing at the door will never have an Infernal land where it will hit them at the door. This leaves the problem of where to position the tank, since you actually require two safe spots, not one.

Personally, I leave the raid at the door, and stand up front along the right-hand wall. That puts me in a position where the raid never ever has to move, but I may have to step to the left or right to dodge one of the two infernals that spawn there, or just stand in one and eat it if we get crap Infernal spawns.

There are some spots along the far left wall that people can apparently wedge themselves into to avoid the Infernals, but we've never used them.

Something that needs to be noted - Blizzard recently ninja-moved one of the Infernal spawn locations on the far left wall a few feet, to close up one of the gaps people were using.
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Postby Invisusira » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:58 pm

Sorry, but you're wrong. I've seen infernals ON the door plenty of times.
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Postby Lisilia » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:02 pm

you are in fact crushable, fix that ASAP ;)
Last edited by Lisilia on Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Everlight » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:03 pm

Invisusira wrote:Sorry, but you're wrong. I've seen infernals ON the door plenty of times.


What you are seeing there is the graphical effect of the Hellfire. The effect is a yard or two bigger than the actual damaging range, and the graphic is big enough to touch the edge of the door, although if you stand there you do not get injured.

We have always left the raid at the door, and we have never had anyone get hit by the Hellfire standing there. Not even once.

Try it yourself. You'll see. You do not get hit at the door.
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Postby Invisusira » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:04 pm

mmm, no, what I'm seeing is whoever's standing there taking damage.

I didn't say that some people don't get lucky. They do. But there are no "safe spots."
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Postby Invisusira » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:07 pm

PS, yes, I have tanked in the "safe spots." People have showed me the exact spots, said "omg try it here it's so easy!" Oh hey what do you know, infernal right on top of us. "OMG that's so weird that's never happened before!"

Invisusira IS.... The Mythbuster
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Postby Everlight » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:12 pm

Then tell me how we've done Karazhan over fifty times, and never had a mishap?

All I'm seeing from you is "zomg it's not possible" - I am seeing no evidence being presented.

If you would like to see Karazhan combat logs from me detailing zero damage to ranged from Netherspite Infernals, they can be presented.

However, I don't think such will be requested because you are just going to keep sticking your fingers in your ears and exclaiming it's not possible.

Open your eyes, observe where the infernals land. You will notice their positioning is NOT random, it's fixed. The door is a safe spot, although I'm not convinced on the safety of any of the other spots that people keep pointing out.

You have not dispelled any myths, you've only said "NO U" in more words. Go and test it yourself. Stand right against the door, to the left side of the broken pillar. Watch what happens.

Hope you like eating your hat.
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Postby Lisilia » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:12 pm

you know Invisusira has a moustache!
Oh crap! Righteous Fury!
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