How to get Guild into Karazhan?

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How to get Guild into Karazhan?

Postby Nemuria » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:44 am

Hello,

it's more related to guild management but it's also about KZ.
I joined a family guild when starting level 70. I soon realized I was the only active tank and also one of the more experienced/geared. Not the place I really wanted being very casual myself. I was looking for another MTs to build a tank group, but seeing the GM & officers not putting effort in it, I just gave up. Also I had to step from WoW for IRL. When I came back nothing evolved.

Just one time the warrior MT poped and we said "2 Tanks, let's go to Attunmen". At first, I was reluctant to MT2 but checked all guild gears and found it was OK. It was great to start something new even if we wiped as expected.

But nothing more came from this little run: MT1 diseapared again playing an alt, the 2nd healer just log to do his daily, altmania...I was a little bit upset as I helped them since their attunement until their first blues/epics 70 gear. Given little Retribution and Healing gear I threatened to respec (I actually respecced on weekend) just to see how the GM would react. "No!! Keep tanking!!".

Currently we have no raid planed. If I join a PuG, as being the only active tank, I would prevent any guildie raid. I just can't even be called a MT actually. How to give them motivation to go on raiding and trying KZ?
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Postby palouf » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:58 am

Put the add on "Group Calendar" for event planning.
Everybody has to download it.
Communicate on the new add on, plan a KZ raid and see who's interested in doing it...
If, you get enough players..gratz
If not, say byebye and find a new guild...
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Postby Jobah » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:59 am

get a new guild. You'll find that the people who end up progressing and making it to end game content are the people who put the work in and have the desire to make it somewhere. the people who you have to hold their hand the entire way through shit rarely get anywhere. I guess decide how far and how serious you wanna take your char and then either stay where you are if you have low aspirations, or find somewhere else with more serious gamers if you wanna get somewhere in the game.
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Postby Parmley » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:00 am

I can just tell you how we finally got into Kara.

I'm in a very small guild, also family oriented. We have 26 level 70's on our roster, but they are maintained by about 15 different people. (I have 4 myself). Yes, we have altism.

There are some in our guild that really enjoy PvP and would log on daily and before you could ask about an instance or anything else, they would be in a battleground. We did have a core group of folks who wanted to enter Kara, but like yourself, folks just weren't driven to do that.

This is what I did: I looked for another small guild to form an alliance. I found a guild a little smaller than ours and talked with their members, eventually leading to creating a chat group for the two guilds. I told folks in our guild that this alliance was to facilitate getting groups together for instances. We rocked on for a couple of weeks, getting to know each other across the guilds (not the PvPers, they were still in the BG's. Then one day we decided to go into Kara, and did.... then we went back... pretty soon our guildmates got the itch to go too and now we can usually form a group of 10 for Kara with just our guild (at times we bring 1-2 from the other guild).

The best way to get them involved, is to just go do it, I'd wager that they would follow.
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Postby uke » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:13 am

I'm in the exact same boat as you.

Joined with a leveling/casual guild that has several family couples when I was about lvl 30. Been great times with them as we moved up in levels. Now, more and more of us are hitting 70 (I'd say about 8 of us are now 70 with others closing in).

However, it seems we've hit a roadblock. Several of the 70's are, shall we say, "intimidated" by doing research on their class/gear and just kind of try to figure stuff out on their own. To put it bluntly, they suck. I've put links on our guild website to different class guides, but I don't think the affected parties have really acted on it. To make matters worse, any friendly nudges I try to give to people to point them in the right direction is usually met with "let <person> do what they want and stop telling people what to do".

Furthermore, there has really been no real push to get people geared for heroics and early Kara, even though most of us are now Kara attuned. Most of my gearing up via instances has been via pugs (fortunately, I've been lucky in finding good ones lately).

I find myself now at a point where I'm geared and ready for heroics and early Kara, but no one else in my guild is, nor are they really pushing to do so. A couple folks have expressed interest in starting heroics, but they're so badly geared and under-skilled, they can't really pull their weight in regular instances (it's pretty bad when the tank is out-dps'ing the dps'ers). Of our 70's, I'd say only three of us has a real clue what we're doing. Fortunately, the other two are a hunter who really knows his stuff and our GM who's a holy pally who's trying to get up to speed (but still tries to rely 95% of the time on flash heals when I'm sitting at 20% life in order to conserve mana :shock: ).

I'm starting to find myself at a crossroads as to what to do. The guildies are all very nice and good people. However, my progression outside of looking for pugs is pretty much held back at this point as the rest of the guild isn't really getting up to speed.
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Postby Nemuria » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:10 am

I am summing up the ideas

- programming KZ myself
- find a new guild
- find an alliance with another guild

Yet I am not an officer, not even class leader,it would be difficult to program a raid on the fly. But I should give it a try. I was already thinking of scheduling Heroics run.

Finding a new guild? I already left my main guild (I had high expectations but never got a raid spot). Now they have splitted up between a hardcore and a casual guild. Things and people are quite the same everywhere. I don't think running away is a good solution, at least it is the ultimate solution.

Alliance: again I am not responsible not even I can speak on behalf of the guild. I have also helped most of the people running KZ currently, for their attunement. So it would be easy to get contact outside. My thought is the family running here doesn' t want to share loots and responsibilities...

For Uke, we are likely in the "same boat" but trying to be an example as well as in behaviour, as in gear and game knowledge. Beware to not showing yourself to elistic because we all make errors one day.

Just telling you my story I was a casual hunter, PuGing PVPing gold farming during months...when I saw all the time wasted, I said 'comon you can do better than that' - especially seeing epic geared retards. I moved my char to a good raiding server, joined an alt guild, did the KZ first down, learnt heroics, Grull, Magh. All this is easy content for me (not likely high end raiding). When I see my current guildies is just seeing myself last year after BC came out. I think we can try to do something where we are and yes, we still can leave whenever we want.
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Postby Jobah » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:33 am

Point a, you dont even need kara to get geared for SSC/TK. Farm heroics and get your tank as buffed as you can and PuG kara if you dont have a guild run.

point b, you're a tankadin. Geared tankadins dont go w/o a guild. I know a lot of holy pallies who have been "asked" to respec prot, they are given their t4 set and then they start the t5 content. And the times i have been guildless...pretty much every time i would pug kara or run a heroic i would get a guild offer. Just some food for thought.
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Postby Cynnammon » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:43 pm

i'm in the same boat as the OP, though we've been into kara...ooh, about 4 times now. the GM and two of the other officers who had been on pretty frequently are now not playing due to RL issues, which is fine. we've gotten offers for mergers from two separate guilds since we often don't have enough online to run kara ourselves. mostly it's due to work schedules and such, but we have a 70 healer on about 2-3 nights per week. so it's pretty impossible for us to get beyond curator in a night. i've been organizing all the kara runs, communicating with all the members when they are and when people want them, essentially running the guild website, working with our partner guild on members, etc.

sunday, the mage officer finally comes back online and she told me the GM might not be coming back ever, or if he does, it'll be a long time. so they're passing GM on to somebody else...just as i'm thinking as much as i love my guild, i'm tired of waiting to see if healers show up to run kara fully as a guild. seems like people are wanting me to officially lead the guild since i'm pretty much doing it anyways, so i'm going to be working my booty off to recruit some new people and get the ball rolling on kara.
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Postby Barathorn » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:40 am

I was in a large guild that disbanded a couple of months after TBC as some of the level 70's wanted to raid and some didn't. I went from being an officer in this guild of 100+ players to being one of 7 players in a small guild of r/l friends. We recruited a few good people from the other guild and basically had 12 players, all with alts, all with different levels of gear. We struggled like hell at first, but eventually we started to get people online at the same time for instances, we were very lucky in that another large guild that a lot of the members from the guild that disbanded went to became a raiding guild, and some of their players couldn't commit to their rigid raiding schedule. We went from 2 guild healers to 6 in a week. This gave us a great footing for Karazhan.

However 3 months prior to this, myself and 2 other members of the guild were ready for Karazhan. We got a few spots in with another small guild that needed our help, to get experiance and were asked to join them. We declined and although 3 of us had to wait 4 months, we were eventually able to start raiding Karazhan on an informal twice a week for 3 - 4 hours total basis. Things are good with our guild, we probably won't be able to do 25 man content without allies, but we all enjoy the game and are progressing through Karazhan nicely.

I guess what I am trying to say is that sometimes its worth the wait if amongst friends, because the shared feeling is greater when downing a boss with people you know outside the game. However, I would say that every persons situation is different, and sometimes you have to move on if the people you are with show no committment to the level of play you are comfortable with.

Good luck.

Barathorn.
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Postby Nemuria » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:18 am

I realize that many tanks face the same experience with their guilds.

Jobah I see your point. Individually, I can move on higher content and get recruited on the way. All the best content is designed toward level70 raid and most people are missing the fun in this game. But KZ is attractive once you start farming, ppl are joining and you likely end up in 25 man.

Then most advise me to take more management responsibility: organizing runs, recruiting, contacting similar guilds,... in other word doing the GM and officers job. We are only about 10-15 active player. It is not that huge to organize and actually what leaders are saying "we don't want to manage a large guild" it is ending up "we manage nothing". Sad?

I have scheduled some heroics for the end of the week. I will keep scheduling "heroics-only" for level 70 (no more easy blue run). I may put free time slot for attunments run on week ends, as most of their families are still levelling. I would likely let a PuG tank so I could make him recruited. See if they get involved and if not I'll follow the exit advice
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Postby Jobah » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:17 pm

Or you can join a t5 guild and get in a group that has kara on farm :D. Hehe im a little selfish, but reason is because i tried what you're doing... I tried to build a guild starting in kara and it didnt work out very well. Alot of people in wow have the same mentality i have now adopted, they gear up and move on. People dont start to get patient until t5 content. Once you hit t5 you reach a point where you actually need a solid group/community to move on. With kara you can just PuG it, same with gruul...

And because of the badges that drop in kara, you're gonna be running it for a while, and you're gonna get sick of it (but still need it). I guess it would depend on where you wanna go in the game, and how fast you wanna get there.
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Re: How to get Guild into Karazhan?

Postby Gowron » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:35 am

Nemuria wrote:Hello,
Currently we have no raid planed. If I join a PuG, as being the only active tank, I would prevent any guildie raid. I just can't even be called a MT actually. How to give them motivation to go on raiding and trying KZ?



uhmm, actually, PuG ahead,
If you guild then wants to do kara, well, they may miss some bosses, but then they can see some other parts of Kara, and maybe decide to go more often.
And because you are not actively raiding. you are not preventing a raid, although asking your GM first would be nice.
Or just say: Wednesday I go to Kara, who joins?
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Postby jsl2000 » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:13 am

yeah sometimes you just have to persevere, i'd thoroughly recommend getting Group Calendar installed within your guild. Like you we were a small guild of Family/Work Collegues we do instances together and generally have fun, once a sizeable amount of us reached 70 then talk progressing onto doing kara. Now we had a bit of a problem, being a small guild we had an awful lot of dps'ers but only 1 tank (warrior) and a couple of priests (my main is a lvl 70 priest). We new we would need another tank to even start kara so the decision was made to recruit, not major like, but just a few more to give us more options. We were very clear to people who asked to join the guild that we're a very casual group who have alot of IRL commitments and therefore instances and raids can and are very few a far between. Consequently we managed to recruit a few like minded members (a few left aswell due to lack of progress) and kara runs are now a weekly occurence. Hopefully we should have enough for gruul within the next month.

Its worth taking a lead with this kind of thing especially seeing as you are more keen to progress than others.
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Postby ulushnar » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:24 am

Get a forum, or use a scheduling mod, or hell, even get the GM to post the next raid time in the Guild Message of the Day.

If you get ten interested people in a semi-viable set-up, then do it.

This shit ain't rocket science. If People aren't gonna be motivated to do that, then go somewhere where people are.
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Postby jsl2000 » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:48 am

thats another thing don't be too perdantic about raid makeup if you've got 5 hunters then you've got 5 hunters just go in and enjoy, our first run of kara took roughly 4hrs isn that time we wiped on attumen trash 5 times and had at least 1 respawn, and we tried moroes a couple of times but couldn't get him down. But practice makes perfect and when we going in now attumen and moroes are down within 40 mins
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