Illhoof strategy: Ignore Kil'raek

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Illhoof strategy: Ignore Kil'raek

Postby cordelia » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:31 pm

So a couple weeks ago we wiped on Illhoof, and were discussing it. We found out we did like 50% more damage than Illhoof has hps. We decided screw Kil'raek, let's just dps Illhoof. As a pally, I went ahead and held aggro on Kil'raek, holy wrathed when possible, to hold aggro on imps, consecrate, and auto-attack/judge/exorc Illhoof. I get a decent amount of mana regen from both imp and Kil'raek damage. A mage will go around and AE every so often to thin out the imps. The most amazing thing is Kil'raek actually dies. He dies from pounding on my HS, my consecrates, and occasionally, the mage AE's. The OT tanks Illhoof. I suppose a pally could tank all of them, but the OT needs a job, too.

Anyways, this strategy makes Illhoof totally trivial. It's sooo much easier than having dps switch back and forth between burning Kil'raek, the imps, and Illhoof, which is the book strat.
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Postby Melathys » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:41 pm

as my guild has gained confidence in my tanking, they have let me go further and further in solo tanking typically dual tanked fights...we solo tanked illhoof last week.

except we still dps'd kil'rek, and I still tanked him. I targeted him for exorcism every other cool down. Had no issues at all. ez mode
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Postby Rainge » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:00 pm

Same strategy I use. Kil'rek still dies occasionally anyway, because the casters can't stand the sight of that many targets without padding the meters.
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Postby Mortehl » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:07 pm

Killing Kil'raek greatly increases the efficiency of the kill and like it or not, your raid is going to have to learn how to switch DPS between targets.
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Postby Everlight » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:35 pm

The other problem with Kil'Rek is that if he's left alone, he tends to chuck Amplify Flames on your Imp tank / Warlocks, which really hurts (it makes the imps hit you for like 600 damage a pop).

We have our OT hold Kil'Rek in the AOE, and then ignore him. That's to stop him from chucking Amplify Flames on either me or the Warlock SoC'er. Immediately after Demon Chains, if Kil'Rek is low on health I call for all DPS to kill him, otherwise we just stay on Illhoof.
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Postby Aessina » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:07 pm

We completely ignore Kil'rek, but he still dies once to the seeds.
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Postby cordelia » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:03 pm

Mortehl wrote:Killing Kil'raek greatly increases the efficiency of the kill and like it or not, your raid is going to have to learn how to switch DPS between targets.

Over half of the team has pretty much farmed out kara. They've done it the old way. They feel that it's just easier and faster to ignore him. The extra 60k hp that Kil'raek represents offsets the added dps you can get on Illhoof.

I'm just mentioning this for any others having problems with Illhoof.
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Postby Fearonir » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:44 pm

I don't think a 25% damage modifier against Illhoof is necessarily something to be ignored. Besides, just because it's a farmed instance doesn't mean people should get lazy.

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Postby cordelia » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:42 pm

Fearonir wrote:I don't think a 25% damage modifier against Illhoof is necessarily something to be ignored. Besides, just because it's a farmed instance doesn't mean people should get lazy.

Well, the point is how useful is that 25% damage modifier, when you just spent 60k dps that you could've spent on Illhoof? Illhoof has 690,000 hp. Kil'rek has 60,000 hp. How many times do you kill Kil'rek in a typical Illhoof fight? 3? 4? Let's say you kill him 3 times. That's 180,000 damage you just spent on Kil'rek. That's 26% of Illhoof's total hp. As I said, Kil'rek dies once, from AE and reflect damage, so you gain two periods of increased damage vs. Illhoof by spending 160-180,000 damage that could've been directed at Illhoof. Those two periods net you 90 seconds of 25% increased damage.
You would have to do 640,000-720,000 base damage during those 90 seconds to gain back the lost damage you spent on Kil'rek. That's an average DPS of 7100-8000 from your raid. Assuming you have 5.5 dps(+tank), That's 1300-1450 dps per raid member during these 90 seconds. Is that sustainable? My raid all agreed that it wasn't, and that it was actually FASTER and more EFFICIENT to ignore Kil'rek and DPS Illhoof. They decided that the 25% damage debuff for 45 seconds doesn't offset the lost 60,000 damage spent burning down Kil'rek.

It's not laziness. It's strategy.

UPDATE: come to think of it, this strategy is even more indicated for weaker kara teams. Looking at the simple trade-off of burning 60,000 dmg on Kil'rek for 45 seconds of 25% damage on Illhoof. The raid needs to generate 240,000 damage on Illhoof just to make that trade even, or 5333 DPS. Assuming 5.3 dps, that's 1000 DPS that the average dps'er has to put out, and 333 DPS that the tank must put out. The worse your gear is, the harder it will be to sustain that kind of dps output during the 45 seconds. Not to mention, you might have to burn chains during the 45 seconds, losing precious Illhoof dps time.
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Postby Xanatos » Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:07 am

There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping Kilrek on your while the raid DPS's down Illhoof. However, if Kilrek dies, you need to assign someone to keep a lookout for him whe he respawns and bring him back to you, otherwise he will make a beeline for your SoC lock or your healers.
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Postby Puss » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:56 am

We also ignore Kilrek for a simple reason : If DPS is nuking Illhoof they SEE when he casts sacrifice. our RL is totally silent during the fight, and everyone just watches illhoof's castcar. When he casts sacrifice, the sacrificed one is usually free before needing heals.

Makes things so much easier. If DPS is on Kilrek, you'll see they forget the sacrifice and that's where things go wrong.

Our alternative strategy :

Nuke Illhoof as hard as possible and ignore the sacrifice , kilrek etc.
Just nuke Illhoof hard. Usually healers ( paladins ) get sacrificed and they get out by buble. 3 sacrifices is all he does, and you're bound to get lucky on at least 1. Works like a charm. ( tho not advised for starting guilds , this is when you're totally overgeared and can clear karazhan in 3 - 4 hours without problems ).

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Postby Zhalseran » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:04 am

I solo tanked illhoof the first time in Kara on my Paladin, and it went fine.

We've always had more success when ignoring Kil'rek. Illhoof is a crazy enough fight as it is, adding one more thing the DPS has to worry about is just unneccessary confusion
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Postby Alienor » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:20 am

I tank them both. But multishot / seed / whatever those melee attacks rogues and warriors do / concencration means I rarely even see the little guy.
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Postby Garwin » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:26 am

Personally I tank kil'rek right next to the warriro tanking illhoof and let the aoe/seeds/consecrates take him down "for free"

sometimes right after a demon chain when his health is at less than 5% I'll call the raid to hit kilrec and kill him early for maximum effect and just do a wadge more damage to illhoof for a cycle.

basically he's "someone you kill while your aoeing the imps down".

you just have to time it for maximum effect
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Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:00 am

Wait ... there's a second mob in that fight?!
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