Best group setup

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Postby Targonis » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:51 am

Levantine wrote:
Mishdorf wrote:but resto shammys are by far the best healer in the game.


Fuck off.


QFT.
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Postby Mishdorf » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:26 pm

Targonis wrote:
Levantine wrote:
Mishdorf wrote:but resto shammys are by far the best healer in the game.


Fuck off.


QFT.


Explain why you think that Holy Pallys, Holy Priests or Resto Druids are better in 5-mans.

None of these has the utility of a resto shammy, and utility is the most important thing in a 5-man (other than the "can they keep you alive factor"). Resto shammys are able to provide totems which will enhance the dps of the group greatly, have wonderful group heals and adequate single target heals. Their biggest weakness is a lack of CC, but if you need your healer to CC you're probably doing something wrong anyway.

EDIT: Oh, and Earth Shield synergises ridiculously well with AOE tanking - far better than PW:S, Prayer of Mending or BoP.
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Postby Mishdorf » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:46 pm

Gelnon wrote:
Marker wrote:Can any shaman do Windfury, Mana-tide or spelldmg totem (wrath of air is it?) or is it specc based? If so, wouldnt a resto shaman be very nice, since it brings the same utility as an enhancement or elemental specced one and you can bring more viable AoE DPS classes for the 3 other spots?

What other group buffs does a shaman bring to the table for speedy 5man HC clearings?


Mana-Tide (the % per tick one) is a talent in resto, Windfury and Wrath of Air are regular, but an enh shaman should have talents that improve WF.


Not all enh shammys will have the improved WF, and even if they do it only increases the AP bonus of it by 30%. And for the sake of arguement, how often do you go into a 5-man with two melee dps classes? If you're bringing an enh shammy they're going to want the totems they need (strength, agil and mana regen - at least that's what I found to be the most effective when I was leveling my resto shammy as enh).
Last edited by Mishdorf on Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Lookit » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:50 pm

Levantine, the Holy Priest wrote:
Mishdorf wrote:Holy Priests are ridiculously good too.


Fuck off.


I find that funny.
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Postby Levantine » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:54 pm

Lookit wrote:
Levantine, the Holy Priest wrote:
Mishdorf wrote:Holy Priests are ridiculously good too.


Fuck off.


I find that funny.


What's so funny about it? That I have issues with someone saying Shaman are the best healers in the game? What the fuck does it matter what class I play as my main? If I played a Pally, or a Druid, or hell, even a goddam Shaman I would have had issues with it.

It's like saying Warriors are hands down the best tank in the game. Complete and utter bullshit.
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Postby Mishdorf » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:07 pm

Levantine wrote:
Lookit wrote:
Levantine, the Holy Priest wrote:
Mishdorf wrote:Holy Priests are ridiculously good too.


Fuck off.


I find that funny.


What's so funny about it? That I have issues with someone saying Shaman are the best healers in the game? What the fuck does it matter what class I play as my main? If I played a Pally, or a Druid, or hell, even a goddam Shaman I would have had issues with it.

It's like saying Warriors are hands down the best tank in the game. Complete and utter bullshit.


Given that we are talking about Min/maxing in 5-mans, making a comment like "Prot pallys are hands down the best tank in the game" would not be an understatement. Sure a warrior or a druid is great, but a prot pally makes Heroic 5-mans so much easier.

In 5-mans resto shammys are the best healer. They can self res, they have the most utility, synergise the best with prot pallys and are the most adaptable of all the healers.

In raids it's a whole different story, though one could argue that given the choice of an extra pally/priest/shammy/druid healer one would take the druid or shammy over the other two. But we're not talking raids, we're talking 5-mans.

And I am not biased against holy priests - my most reliable healer is a holy priest. I'm just being objective based on my observations (mainly of being healed, but also of healing - I've leveled a priest and a resto shammy to 35 and 62 respectively).
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Postby Levantine » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:55 pm

Then don't say "but resto shammys are by far the best healer in the game."

Instead, say that Resto Shaman are the best bet for 5mans and heroics, or something to that effect.
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Postby Mishdorf » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:54 pm

Levantine wrote:Then don't say "but resto shammys are by far the best healer in the game."

Instead, say that Resto Shaman are the best bet for 5mans and heroics, or something to that effect.


I really find your complaints amusing. You picked up on a quote, took it massively out of context (the whole post only spoke about 5-mans) and ignored the point made directly after it.

I'm sorry if I lingual shortcuts (that should be obvious based on their context) which offend you. :roll:

Still, even in a raid context, all else being equal with a final healing spot to fill and all classes accounted for a raid is more likely to bring a resto shammy/druid than a holy pally or priest.
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Postby Gelnon » Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:01 am

Mishdorf wrote:
Gelnon wrote:Mana-Tide (the % per tick one) is a talent in resto, Windfury and Wrath of Air are regular, but an enh shaman should have talents that improve WF.


Not all enh shammys will have the improved WF, and even if they do it only increases the AP bonus of it by 30%. And for the sake of arguement, how often do you go into a 5-man with two melee dps classes? If you're bringing an enh shammy they're going to want the totems they need (strength, agil and mana regen - at least that's what I found to be the most effective when I was leveling my resto druid as enh).


Smart enh shaman will have the talent. :) On my shaman I'm frequently in with a rogue and if not a rogue then a warrior tank who <3s wf more than I'd <3 agi totem.

Then again, i frequently have odd groups on my shaman like resto sham, prot war, enh sham, rogue and a mage. Double totems ftw.
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Postby Levantine » Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:27 am

Mishdorf wrote:
Levantine wrote:Then don't say "but resto shammys are by far the best healer in the game."

Instead, say that Resto Shaman are the best bet for 5mans and heroics, or something to that effect.


I really find your complaints amusing. You picked up on a quote, took it massively out of context (the whole post only spoke about 5-mans) and ignored the point made directly after it.

I'm sorry if I lingual shortcuts (that should be obvious based on their context) which offend you. :roll:

Still, even in a raid context, all else being equal with a final healing spot to fill and all classes accounted for a raid is more likely to bring a resto shammy/druid than a holy pally or priest.


/sigh

I give up.

Actually... no. In a raid, given the choice, I'd rather take another Priest or Shaman. Circle of Healing and Chain Heal are far superiour what a Druid brings in my opinion. More group healing means that you're less likely to need that one more Battle Res.
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Postby Targonis » Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:29 am

Mishdorf wrote:
Levantine wrote:Then don't say "but resto shammys are by far the best healer in the game."

Instead, say that Resto Shaman are the best bet for 5mans and heroics, or something to that effect.


I really find your complaints amusing. You picked up on a quote, took it massively out of context (the whole post only spoke about 5-mans) and ignored the point made directly after it.

I'm sorry if I lingual shortcuts (that should be obvious based on their context) which offend you. :roll:

Still, even in a raid context, all else being equal with a final healing spot to fill and all classes accounted for a raid is more likely to bring a resto shammy/druid than a holy pally or priest.


It's not a lingual shortcut if you make a broad statement like "Shamans are the best healers in the game."

Every healing class has its place in 5 mans to make it run smoother and they all bring utility. It all depends on the group make-up and gear level.

Shamans are NOT the best, but neither are Druids/Priests/Paladins. They all bring their own unique utility and will benefit every different group composition differently.

Put your e-peens away children, nobody is better than anybody else, except for me.
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Postby Mishdorf » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:17 am

Targonis wrote:
Mishdorf wrote:
Levantine wrote:Then don't say "but resto shammys are by far the best healer in the game."

Instead, say that Resto Shaman are the best bet for 5mans and heroics, or something to that effect.


I really find your complaints amusing. You picked up on a quote, took it massively out of context (the whole post only spoke about 5-mans) and ignored the point made directly after it.

I'm sorry if I lingual shortcuts (that should be obvious based on their context) which offend you. :roll:

Still, even in a raid context, all else being equal with a final healing spot to fill and all classes accounted for a raid is more likely to bring a resto shammy/druid than a holy pally or priest.


It's not a lingual shortcut if you make a broad statement like "Shamans are the best healers in the game."

Every healing class has its place in 5 mans to make it run smoother and they all bring utility. It all depends on the group make-up and gear level.

Shamans are NOT the best, but neither are Druids/Priests/Paladins. They all bring their own unique utility and will benefit every different group composition differently.

Put your e-peens away children, nobody is better than anybody else, except for me.


I really struck a nerve with you didn't I.

It was clear from my statements and the context that I was refering to 5-man instances. Even if you misunderstood the original post, it is NOW CLEAR that I am refering to 5-mans because I'M TELLING YOU THAT IT'S WHAT I'M REFERING TO. The topic is min-maxing groups, and for that a Shaman is the best healer, especially when you consider that an optimal group setup will generally include a shadow priest (thus providing the stam buff and if necessary PW:S).

Given the choice between a shammy, a preist, a druid and a pally healer, all with the same healing ability for a random heroic I'd pick, in this order, the shammy, the priest, the druid and then last the pally. And if you look at that list, it ranges from the most flexible and adaptable to the least. The difference between healers may not be the difference between life and death (wipes) but it may be the difference between finishing that 5-man 5 minutes faster because all your dps got extra spell damage or windfury
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Is it me or is this all rather pointless

Postby ldeboer » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:51 pm

I have had good and bad healers from every class.

I have also had +850 healing bonus healers that are magnificent and +1800 healing bonus healers that simply suck.

To me the player makes the diff not the class.

Perfect setup me tank, 1 good healer, 3 smart dps. Very rare to find it all when you do its heaven.
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Postby Lowgrus » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:33 am

Mishdorf wrote:
Levantine wrote:Then don't say "but resto shammys are by far the best healer in the game."

Instead, say that Resto Shaman are the best bet for 5mans and heroics, or something to that effect.


I really find your complaints amusing. You picked up on a quote, took it massively out of context (the whole post only spoke about 5-mans) and ignored the point made directly after it.

I'm sorry if I lingual shortcuts (that should be obvious based on their context) which offend you. :roll:

Still, even in a raid context, all else being equal with a final healing spot to fill and all classes accounted for a raid is more likely to bring a resto shammy/druid than a holy pally or priest.


Duh.

dude you fail at life. obviously i said that about 5 MANS. Learn to read or go hang yourself due to the uselessness you have to society. Prot paladins are the best tanks for 5 mans are and resto shamans are the best healers for 5 mans. hope that cleared it up for you.
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Re: Is it me or is this all rather pointless

Postby Marker » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:22 am

ldeboer wrote:I have had good and bad healers from every class.

I have also had +850 healing bonus healers that are magnificent and +1800 healing bonus healers that simply suck.

To me the player makes the diff not the class.

Perfect setup me tank, 1 good healer, 3 smart dps. Very rare to find it all when you do its heaven.


Of course. but I'm kinda obsessed with speedrunning HCs, since that's about how much of a challenge I can get since I'm unable to raid. That's why I'd like to see what kind of group setup would provide the best group synergies for speedruns. Whatever can shave a couple of minutes off the time. It's kinda given that you have people that can think for themselves and knows their class, even though few pugs provide that for all spots :)
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