Trouble with Heroics/OT'ing Kara

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Trouble with Heroics/OT'ing Kara

Postby Pritia » Sat May 10, 2008 9:56 pm

I am a level 70 Paladin with some good gear but others aren't that great. Yet when i went into Heroic Ramps the other day, i couldn't even handle the trash. my overall def skill is 490-495 (depends on which helm i have equipped) and my health with kings exceeds 11k. My armor is what i've been told is the problem. Is there anything i should look at getting that is either a Blue or a Purple that isn't that hard to get (or farm mats for it)?

Pritia on Silver Hand <Daybreak> is the stuff (i don't know if my sig works or not.)
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Postby Cosmoz » Sat May 10, 2008 10:12 pm

11k hp with kings aint that good realy. and with that hp, I assume your armor is low as well. there is a list on pre-raid tanking items on this forum. check that out.
Do easier heroics for badges. there are some very hard hitting mobs in ramps. ans use maximum CC
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Postby Pritia » Sat May 10, 2008 10:15 pm

Cosmoz wrote:11k hp with kings aint that good realy. and with that hp, I assume your armor is low as well. there is a list on pre-raid tanking items on this forum. check that out.
Do easier heroics for badges. there are some very hard hitting mobs in ramps. ans use maximum CC


Thanks for the reply. I'll check it out.
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Re: Trouble with Heroics/OT'ing Kara

Postby Wakeman » Sun May 11, 2008 3:19 am

Pritia wrote:I am a level 70 Paladin with some good gear but others aren't that great. Yet when i went into Heroic Ramps the other day, i couldn't even handle the trash. my overall def skill is 490-495 (depends on which helm i have equipped) and my health with kings exceeds 11k. My armor is what i've been told is the problem. Is there anything i should look at getting that is either a Blue or a Purple that isn't that hard to get (or farm mats for it)?

Pritia on Silver Hand <Daybreak> is the stuff (i don't know if my sig works or not.)



Armor is not your main problem. Your problem is the low avoidance (dodge, parry). It also help if you have higher health and block. Besides, get a weapon with spell damage, which is the basis of your threat generation.

It's a good idea to follow the stickiest to get all those easy blue tanking gear. But before that, you need to respec. Drop Imp Hammer of Justice and Reckoning. Get 5/5 Deflection, which is a MUST for tankadins. Consider Precision, Pursuit of Justice or Imp Judgement of the Crusader for the last 3 points.

Also, your current chest, cloak, helm and gloves probably won't get replaced until you get an epic, so it is better to give the best enchant to them.

Hope this help.
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Re: Trouble with Heroics/OT'ing Kara

Postby Pritia » Sun May 11, 2008 8:49 am

Wakeman wrote:
Pritia wrote:I am a level 70 Paladin with some good gear but others aren't that great. Yet when i went into Heroic Ramps the other day, i couldn't even handle the trash. my overall def skill is 490-495 (depends on which helm i have equipped) and my health with kings exceeds 11k. My armor is what i've been told is the problem. Is there anything i should look at getting that is either a Blue or a Purple that isn't that hard to get (or farm mats for it)?

Pritia on Silver Hand <Daybreak> is the stuff (i don't know if my sig works or not.)



Armor is not your main problem. Your problem is the low avoidance (dodge, parry). It also help if you have higher health and block. Besides, get a weapon with spell damage, which is the basis of your threat generation.

It's a good idea to follow the stickiest to get all those easy blue tanking gear. But before that, you need to respec. Drop Imp Hammer of Justice and Reckoning. Get 5/5 Deflection, which is a MUST for tankadins. Consider Precision, Pursuit of Justice or Imp Judgement of the Crusader for the last 3 points.

Also, your current chest, cloak, helm and gloves probably won't get replaced until you get an epic, so it is better to give the best enchant to them.

Hope this help.


Thanks for the reply. I was wondering how to increaswe my armor and most of the stuff i can get doesn't have enough of it and i'd be downgrading. I will Respec today and see how it goes.
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Postby sweeney » Sun May 11, 2008 10:06 pm

Heroic Ramps and Blood Furnace are in no way the heroics to start with. Hit up Slave Pens and see how that goes.

Heck, for a paladin, I'd make sure you have Heroic Shattered Halls down cold before you bother with the other Hellfire instances.

Generally, places with mobs that mortal strike are not a happy place for a lowish HP tank to learn his craft. :)
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Postby iedo627 » Mon May 12, 2008 3:48 am

Heroic shatt halls blows too though. The gauntlet will totally rape low HP tanks because of the unexpected boss at the end of it (many puggers still apparently don't know he is there in heroic). BF/Ramps trash hits crazy hard, its worse than those lobsterfreaks in SPens. Just my two cents.
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Postby sweeney » Mon May 12, 2008 6:18 am

That's a good point. I'm probably just biased because after one H Slave Pens run, the next thing we tried was SH and actually made the timer. I was a late bloomer as far as heroics go, since I healed quite a bit of Kara so I had 12k+ unbuffed before I was tanking many 5-mans, and I won't run without a "heroic-friendly" healer, meaning not only is their gear decent but they don't whine about having to do a lot of healing. :)
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Re: Trouble with Heroics/OT'ing Kara

Postby ldeboer » Tue May 13, 2008 1:40 am

Wakeman wrote:
Armor is not your main problem. Your problem is the low avoidance (dodge, parry). It also help if you have higher health and block. Besides, get a weapon with spell damage, which is the basis of your threat generation.


Lots of the mobs stun and all hit like trucks, all the avoidance in the world wont help you. Only armour and lots of HP is going to stop the rape.

You can be passively uncrushable for example you wont get up the stairs in H-BF and you wont get past the first boss in H-ramps with 10K HP unless you have a brilliant healer.
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Re: Trouble with Heroics/OT'ing Kara

Postby Wakeman » Tue May 13, 2008 9:37 pm

ldeboer wrote:
Wakeman wrote:
Armor is not your main problem. Your problem is the low avoidance (dodge, parry). It also help if you have higher health and block. Besides, get a weapon with spell damage, which is the basis of your threat generation.


Lots of the mobs stun and all hit like trucks, all the avoidance in the world wont help you. Only armour and lots of HP is going to stop the rape.

You can be passively uncrushable for example you wont get up the stairs in H-BF and you wont get past the first boss in H-ramps with 10K HP unless you have a brilliant healer.



You misunderstood my comment. I didn't say that armor is not important. Check his profile. He has about 13k armor (somehow his signature showed 14k armor), which is better than average for his level. However, his total avoidance is only ~36-37% now (which was even lower previously when he hadn't specced Deflection), block 15%, which are pretty low. Therefore, I said that armor is not the main problem for him.
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Re: Trouble with Heroics/OT'ing Kara

Postby ldeboer » Tue May 13, 2008 10:13 pm

Wakeman wrote:You misunderstood my comment. I didn't say that armor is not important. Check his profile. He has about 13k armor (somehow his signature showed 14k armor), which is better than average for his level. However, his total avoidance is only ~36-37% now (which was even lower previously when he hadn't specced Deflection), block 15%, which are pretty low. Therefore, I said that armor is not the main problem for him.


Got what you mean now :)

Sorry just for many higher tanks rate H-BF and to a less extent H-Ramps as easy because pulls are easy they forget how hard these things hit and so many stun. Quite a few threads with new tanks getting a rude shock after thinking they were supposed to be easy.
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Postby Mishdorf » Tue May 13, 2008 11:17 pm

It is my experience that it is actually much easier to do H ramps than H SP as a fresh tank.

Why? Because dps are used to treating each pull with respect in H ramps. H SP mobs also has some nasty abilities which can very easily cause wipes (mind control and fear), even moreso than the stuns and MS in ramps.

People all say that H SP is easier, and now that I'm more geared it is much easier, but I found ramps was easier to start with. However YMMV. The true easiest heroic is Mech anyway. Especially if you bring a rogue to interrupt charged fist.
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Postby Barathorn » Wed May 14, 2008 1:37 am

Mishdorf wrote:People all say that H SP is easier, and now that I'm more geared it is much easier, but I found ramps was easier to start with. However YMMV. The true easiest heroic is Mech anyway. Especially if you bring a rogue to interrupt charged fist.


And a warlock to enslave, then Heroic Mech becomes very comfortable. Just don't expect to down Fire Bitch everytime.

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Postby ldeboer » Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am

Mishdorf wrote:It is my experience that it is actually much easier to do H ramps than H SP as a fresh tank.

Why? Because dps are used to treating each pull with respect in H ramps. H SP mobs also has some nasty abilities which can very easily cause wipes (mind control and fear), even moreso than the stuns and MS in ramps.

People all say that H SP is easier, and now that I'm more geared it is much easier, but I found ramps was easier to start with. However YMMV. The true easiest heroic is Mech anyway. Especially if you bring a rogue to interrupt charged fist.


I would agree with you completely so long as you respect H-ramps it's easy enough and I think that's where it's all gone wrong.

Back in time for example we would kill the hound master and run out causing the hounds to despawn because that was very hard on a low HP tank. You also took as much CC as you could.

I think since then we have the birth of "AOE pally tank it all approach". It's just not the sort of instance you can take that approach with low stats because they hit hard and avoidance isnt enough. Any high avoidance tank with 12K HP can tank all the crabs in H-SP but try that in H-Ramps and you will be dead.

I notice this trend with MgT with tanks having trouble because you cant just AOE the whole place. You have tanks with massive avoidance gear and insane low HP trying to tank it and it's like hello they are casters.

Food for thought ... maybe all the new higher gear just makes worse tanks.
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Postby Kelaan » Wed May 14, 2008 8:15 am

I'd say that rather it lets inexperienced tanks gear up faster, and tank HArder Stuff which maybe they don't know they aren't ready for yet. ;)
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