Holy Pally telling me how to Mark.....Shadow Labs

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Postby Phoolish » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:59 pm

Kinrain wrote:1. I'm a protection Paladin, that means I tank everything at once and WANT them all to be hitting me. I frontload a lot of threat so the bonus is as soon as you see the floor light up with my first Consecration you can pretty much go DPS crazy.

2. Remember what I said about waiting for Consecration? If you attack before the first one goes off you might pull aggro. Do it once and i'll taunt the mob off you (run TO me not away please) And if you do it twice? 'You Yank it You Tank It'.


I hope you don't mind...but I'm going to snag some of this for my own macros.
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Postby sbeacher » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:38 pm

@ Bettiepage: You have 38 holy damage. Thirty-eight.

@ Kinrain, you have 76.

Unless your dps is in all greens with +spirit on them they're probably going to pull aggro off you at some point. Give them a break until you actually have some threat on your gear.

Not that there is any excuse for dps to start before the mobs enter your consecrate.

Concerning the original post, I always kill the summoner's first and the MC dudes second and it works fine. I watch the spellbinder's until I see them try to cast brain wash and then hammer them. By the time he comes out of the stun the summoner is dead and you start in on him.

The only times I've ever been mced are when somehow another group gets pulled or if there is no cc at that last group and one of the three manages to get one off.

And honestly if you're at that point in the instance it means you beat the the 2nd boss which the only difficult (well, more like annoying) part anyhow.
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Postby Kelaan » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:36 pm

sbeacher wrote:@ Bettiepage: You have 38 holy damage. Thirty-eight.

@ Kinrain, you have 76.

Unless your dps is in all greens with +spirit on them they're probably going to pull aggro off you at some point. Give them a break until you actually have some threat on your gear.


A DPS class who is trying to push the damage envelope likely will ... but if they're watching threat, it's easy to throttle damage back, or split it among multiple targets so that no one target hates you more than they hate the tank.

If your defenses are good, then more +damage is always a good thing -- but for starting tanks, we still are putting effort into GETTING the extra spell damage. (For example, I'm not yet Refered with KoT, and haven't seen a Crystalforged Sword on the AH yet, so I'm stuck with the Annointing club + some quest trinket, for ~80ish spelldamage total.) For new tanks in a position like this, I think it's certainly reasonable to point out that your threat generation is relatively slow, and to ask that people at least give you a chance to get a mild threat lead before they lay into things.

Even if we don't count a lot of contribution from spell damage, initial threat will be something on the order of ~500 (avenger's shield) + ~200 (SoR), plus hopefully the white hit (100ish?), for a total of ~800 initial threat. Er, make that more like ~1500 threat -- I forgot Righteous Fury. ;)) In the time that it takes a max rank consecration to tick through (for an additional ~1k), you should also end up getting a block or two, which adds another 400ish threat each, as well as more white hits on the prime target.

Waiting 6 seconds to engage basically doubles your initial threat lead on ALL targets, which means that your DPS now is relatively safe to start damage. Chances are, non-bosses will be DEAD before smart players have eaten through a 2k threat lead, unless they're significantly overgearing you, or perhaps are using Windfury. ;) Since dead DPS do no damage, most can be persuaded to wait a bit (or spread their damage across targets).

Still, you're right -- we noobadins WILL benefit from spelldamage ... but that's hard to do when you're working on getting uncrushable first. (With luck, I'll get tank some Black Morass this weekend, and the spelldamage concern will be moot...)
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Postby Bettiepage » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:32 am

@ sbeacher: Unless I am wrong, my sig has not updated in the past month. If you click on my Armory link you can see that I have enough Spelldamage and Defense to run most Dungeons. I worked hard at getting Revered with the Keepers of Time just for the Blade. Although I did not have the blade at the time I posted this thread, I still had a +40 spellpower to the pevious one I was using. Not to mention I had 2 trinkets, that when used, gave me X amount of Spelldamage. So, I dont get what my Spelldamage has anything to do with Killing the Summoner or the Spellbinder first. I am going to chalk this one up to "Kill the Spellbinder first" and let the rest pan out. :roll:

P.S. Sig seems to be working now. Edit: April 13, 2008
Last edited by Bettiepage on Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Shamora » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:39 am

I always kill the MC first. I can stun either of them and prevent either a MC or a summon, but its easier to prevent the long casting summon and if my stun is resisted I can easily handle an extra add. Having me or someone overly geared being MC'd and then running around and killing people is never fun. Unless it's when I get MC'd and kill that huntard that doesn't know how to freakin feign death :twisted:
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Postby guillex » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:40 am

sbeacher wrote:@ Bettiepage: You have 38 holy damage. Thirty-eight.


I've done it before ... Just checked the sig instead of doing an armory search. Epic phaelure on both sides.

275sd for Bettie.
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Postby Bettiepage » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:58 am

Guillex wrote:
sbeacher wrote:@ Bettiepage: You have 38 holy damage. Thirty-eight.


I've done it before ... Just checked the sig instead of doing an armory search. Epic phaelure on both sides.

275sd for Bettie.


Woot! Looking for Group: Offtank for Kara...pst :wink:
Oh, wait, might need a little more Defense.....on to Heroics! :P
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Postby Moses » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:18 pm

I like to kill the summoners first, but it may be old habit I learned while tanking on my (now retired) warrior. Regardless you have the crown on your portrait, you are the leader and you set the marks.
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Postby Kinrain » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:25 am

@ sbeacher

Same here, my sig seems to be borked. I have 239 +spell dam unbuffed (I always use wizard oil when on raids and also on heroics if the DPS are imba)

I have the Continuum Blade, Crystalforged Sword and S1 Gavel, although the Continuum Blade hasn't made it out of the bank in ages. Oh and a 227 +heal mace for my off heal set.

My regular group plays 'Get the agro off Kin and win a Cookie' game.

They never win. :twisted:

@ Phoolish - feel free to use them, I have one other /p macro for fun...

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Usually raises a few lols.
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Postby GothicPL » Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:19 pm

Bettiepage wrote:Yeah, I'm going to have to start being an ass when they do that. Just today we were in Slave Pens [Heroic] and we had a Lock and Mage pull Quagg off me 3 times. This gets annoying quick. So I will let ppl at the start know that if they pull from me once, I know it is an accident....but more than 2 times, have fun running back or finding a new tank. :lol:


I believe Quag switches aggro temporarily during the fight when he does his Acid Geyser thing, so it may not have been the DPS fault. Keep in mind that he's tauntable, and that you can BoP your friends if he runs towards them because of the aggro switch. As much as I hate bad DPSers, I would be hesitant to leave the group when you're at the last boss of a heroic instance with a reset timer.

I always tell DPS to wait til I position him away from the group against the wall, so I get to frontload tons of threat, after which salv'ed DPS can go all out. Never wiped on this fight, it's got to be the easiest heroic end boss.
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Postby Moses » Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:06 am

GothicPL wrote:
Bettiepage wrote:Yeah, I'm going to have to start being an ass when they do that. Just today we were in Slave Pens [Heroic] and we had a Lock and Mage pull Quagg off me 3 times. This gets annoying quick. So I will let ppl at the start know that if they pull from me once, I know it is an accident....but more than 2 times, have fun running back or finding a new tank. :lol:


I believe Quag switches aggro temporarily during the fight when he does his Acid Geyser thing, so it may not have been the DPS fault. Keep in mind that he's tauntable, and that you can BoP your friends if he runs towards them because of the aggro switch. As much as I hate bad DPSers, I would be hesitant to leave the group when you're at the last boss of a heroic instance with a reset timer.

I always tell DPS to wait til I position him away from the group against the wall, so I get to frontload tons of threat, after which salv'ed DPS can go all out. Never wiped on this fight, it's got to be the easiest heroic end boss.


Yeah he does change targets to geyser acid at the affected party memeber and anyone near him. If you taunt right after he does this he'll target you and most of the acid gets poured on you. This is a good thing. I save my taunts for these times in this fight.

I run with a few pretty decent dpsers in my normal group. My ele shaman puts out about 1400 dps selfbuffed. I think shamans get like 10% threat reduction and another 30% for salve and I find I can hold aggro with my buffed 440ish spell damage (food + oil + a few spell damage pieces). If you are losing aggro in heroics I'd look at picking up some spell damage heavy pieces and useing them in your heroic tanking set.
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Postby Bettiepage » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:13 pm

This is true, but I didn't even have him out of the water when they started the first time. I'll try to be a bit clear next time...=)
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Postby Aloette » Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:46 pm

I've always marked the summoner first. It doesn't really matter unless you somehow have 5 group members that don't have a stun/silence.

Have a rogue/mage keep the non-kill target silenced, while the rest of the group kills the marked target. Both mobs have an undesireable ability and they should both be prevented from using them. With 5 people and a Paladin tanking, it shouldn't be an issue no matter which target you attack first.

That being said, if your group is incapable of doing two things at once, I'd kill the MC mob first as an extra summoned mob can easily be OTed with consecrate.
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Re: Holy Pally telling me how to Mark.....Shadow Labs

Postby ldeboer » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:05 pm

Bettiepage wrote:I am looking for a bit of understanding here. We were at the start of the last corridor to Murmur. I had marked as usual, Summoner was to die second and the caster who uses mind control was to die first. The Holy Pally says..."Kill the summoner first." I say, "But the Caster MC's. He needs to die first." HP: "The summoner summons." and so on. So, like a Dumbass, I remark as he said, Holy Frisbee and JoR on Summoner. I get a HS off and was just about to turn and Hammer the caster, I get MC'd. Short story, this resulted in a wipe.
When we all came back, I marked as I had it before. We survived that time with the MC going off when he had somewhere in the vicinity of 20% life left and the rest of the group killed him. Next grp..HP "kill Summoner guys" What was this guys beef? Did the first pull tell him that the other guy needed to die first. I can clearly get the summoned add on me if needed (RD/ Conc..so on). Was I wrong to mark it that way or are you supposed to kill the Summoner first? :? Thanks.


I am slack I get the spellbinder CC'ed I know a pally tank who CC's is wrong :)

Kill the summoner 1st the other two melee types will run to you anyhow.

All group needs to watch for is the spellbinder breaking sheep early cause it generally instantly goes for an MC.
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