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NON-Heroic ramps and BF...

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Eltiana » Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:07 pm

Obvious, but remember to keep Righteous Fury up, and Blessing of Salvation on all the DPS. Yes even the hunters, Hunters at that level from what I find can't FD to save their life...literally >_<.
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Postby sweeney » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:35 am

Mana management is something you have to constantly pay attention to, but it gets easier with practice.

For a fight like this, where snap aggro is more important than keeping your threat output constantly high, ditch JoWis. And pretty much never use seal of wisdom unless you're outside an instance. SoR is your bread and butter.

Remember, you get aggro on these guys, they hit you hard, you get healed, you get mana. If you've gotten in the habit of using Wisdom a lot, you're probably either consecrating too much (remember you can use lower ranks, r4 is pretty darn good and much cheaper), or you're not taking enough damage. This problem never goes away -- the better geared you are, the more mobs you need hitting you to keep from going OOM. I doubt you're at the point where you outgear things, but it's something to keep in mind in future.

edit: Sorry, forgot you're 60ish, r2-3 Consecrate should be pretty good for most situations.
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Postby sucellus » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:39 am

Shadraak wrote:next group had a shaman that had aggro all the time, it's like once i loose it i can't get it back even the taunt isn't doing it i dont know why my gear isn't that bad infact i'm told it's dang good.


This is the DPSs fault, they should get threat meters (assuming you have one) and not overtake you.

I'd go with:

Avenger's shield if the dude is dead
JoR
SoR + Auto-Attack while swinging him around (DPS hold back at this point or finish off the dude)
Consecrate
SoC, JoC, SoR,
then just repeat JoR, SoR, Consecrate until he's down.

Obviously keeping up holy shield.
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Postby Adoriel » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:48 am

Honestly, I had a similar issue the first time I ran ramparts. The keys to the dragon are these:

1. About 10 seconds after the boss jumps from his mount the dragon will land in the back of the arena. BEFORE the warning message appears (count to ten at a brisk pace), run to the back, drop consecrate and prep seal of righteousness. The boss will probably be following you while you run back there so merely let your DPS pewpew him to death. He's not a threat.

2. As he lands he will hopefully land in your consecrate. Immediately judgement of righteousness and then avenger's shield him, since he won't act for 1-2 seconds after landing. Make SURE fire resist aura is up.

3. After you did that, refresh consecrate ONCE - don't use it again after this since you're going to be moving) and turn it away from every one else. Whenever he does a fire breath attack, strafe with the q&e keys and look at the ground. There will be enviornmental fire patches and those HURT. Stay out of them.

Repeat judging righteousness/avenger's shield and eventually hammer of wrath until he's dead. Don't forget holy shield.
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Postby Thornin » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:31 pm

I'm pretty confident in my tanking abilities and the ability to maintain threat so once I've established about 4k threat above the DPS, I'll switch from JoR to SoV/JoV. With a full stack of Holy Righteousness when I judge SoV I can crit for well over 1k damage at level 68. Add that to ticking damage it really helps keep up aggro and apply a decent amount of dps. Note that I still open with JoR since I need the snap aggro. Against the dragon I'll throw the shield at him as he lands before the rider is dead. As long as the dps folk can take out the rider fairly quickly, I can spend my time getting aggro on the dragon.
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Postby Impervium » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:33 pm

I recently went through the Ramparts running spree on my pally (63 now yay!) What I do for most bosses is front load threat (AS, JoR, Cons, and SoR until judgement cooldown is up after which I switch to Wisdom). After that i switch to Holy shield and Cons for threat. When the dude (can't remember his name) gets to about 25%, I put SoR back up and wait for the dragon to land. With out fail, he's targetting the healer as soon as he lands. I taunt him and JoR him and let dps finish off the guy. I never had trouble holding hate on him.

What i did have trouble with the first few times was surviving the fight. I waited until 60 to go to outlands and did my first ramparts run about 30 minutes after getting there. Frankly, my gear was utter trash. I had just over 4.5k health on that run and no priest for PW:Fort. The fire from the dragon, even with me strafing him was just eatting through my health too fast for the healer to keep up. I did manage to survive until 2% and the group was able to finish him off, but it sucked.

My next run, I was outfitted in almost all outlands gear, and lvl 61 and I tanked the crap out him. Wasn't even hard.
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Postby Shadraak » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:08 pm

Impervium wrote:I recently went through the Ramparts running spree on my pally (63 now yay!) What I do for most bosses is front load threat (AS, JoR, Cons, and SoR until judgement cooldown is up after which I switch to Wisdom). After that i switch to Holy shield and Cons for threat. When the dude (can't remember his name) gets to about 25%, I put SoR back up and wait for the dragon to land. With out fail, he's targetting the healer as soon as he lands. I taunt him and JoR him and let dps finish off the guy. I never had trouble holding hate on him.

What i did have trouble with the first few times was surviving the fight. I waited until 60 to go to outlands and did my first ramparts run about 30 minutes after getting there. Frankly, my gear was utter trash. I had just over 4.5k health on that run and no priest for PW:Fort. The fire from the dragon, even with me strafing him was just eatting through my health too fast for the healer to keep up. I did manage to survive until 2% and the group was able to finish him off, but it sucked.

My next run, I was outfitted in almost all outlands gear, and lvl 61 and I tanked the crap out him. Wasn't even hard.


well if you take a look at my gear you'll see that i do have decent gear now as of when i last logged, may have left my goggles on by accident as i'm leveling in zengar now and need to find those gas clouds lol...

i shouln't have a problem with my gear and health/etc but i haven't tanked it since i'm with some more gear and i'm about to hit 62
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Postby Lalecize » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:43 pm

Hmm. I usually taunt him as soon as he lands and wack a JoR on him.

I dont remember him not being tauntable?

With the rider, I tell the dps to hammer him hard. When the dragon lands if the riders still up i ignore the rider and take off after the dragon. The key is to get him as soon as he lands, not wait until he's killing your healer.

Everytime i've abandoned the rider for the dragon (even when he was only on 50% hp once) he has followed me, and I've duel tanked them both.

Whatever you do - don't ignore the dragon!
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Re: NON-Heroic ramps and BF...

Postby ldeboer » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:08 pm

Shadraak wrote:well i've been tanking ramps about 4x having problems keeping some aggro or getting aggro back after i loose it, any ideas on this? my main "pain" is the last boss, i can keep him on me but when the dragon comes it usually goes straight for the healer and kills them first before i can even get em, and i die fast from the flame thrower he does, any tips on iguess, re-gaining aggro? cause the taunt isn't working :(

and i will be doig BF soon as well, people have told me to wait till level 62 to tank this is that correct? i have excellent gear i think for my level anyway and dont see why i can't do it :(


Havent done in normal for ages :) but in heroic I ignore the guy once he approaches 20% and leave that to party focusing on dragon and getting ready to hit him with shield. The guy just runs along behind me whacking on me while the dps take him down even if they draw agro he has a long run and he will be dead b4 he gets to them.
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Postby Aloette » Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:04 pm

When you're fighting the humanoid, avoid judging him when at all when he's under 30%-40%. You should have enough of a threat lead at this point that the DPS can burn him down while you hold aggro with Consecrate/Holy Shield/SoR. As long as the DPS isn't slow as molasses, I tend to completely ignore the humanoid at ~25% and prepare for the dragon.

Typically, when I did it at 60-62 as a non-heroic, soon as the dragon landed I would whack him with a JoC for the extra holy damage and then an Avengers Shield. Immediately bring up SoR and then HS/consecrate and fall into your normal rotation.

Also remember the 'basics'.

-Righteous Fury (duh :P)
-use FR aura (helps reduce the party damage, this fight often surprises most new healers)
-try BoPing the healer (typically who the dragon will go to when he lands) 2-3 seconds before the dragon lands
-Salv all the DPS. I get complaints, but whenever I pug the DPS gets salv or I don't tank, it's that simple. You're not facing enrage timers, so I would prefer to take a few more seconds by using Salv over DPS blessings and risk someone pulling aggro.
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Postby Aloette » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:12 am

Shadraak wrote:
Worldie wrote:That dragon, and all the next bosses you will find as long as you don't overgear, will be hurting you SO bad that mana will be the last of your problems.


but then again if i'm oom i'm fubared right? i mean i ran with a pally healer and she knew how to heal me to let me get to like 40% and hit me with a big heal and it was good same wth a priest but there's some that will jsut pop on little regen ones and keep me topped off and it's like i'm always OOM :(


It really doesn't matter if the healer uses big heals, small heals, or HoTs to heal you, you're essentially gaining the same amount of mana. You are taking a fixed amount of damage over the course of the boss fight, so the healer is going to have to heal you for that same fixed amount + any overheals. It really doesn't matter from a paladin's perspective how that health is restored. If it's being restored, you're restoring mana. If it's not being restored, you're not restoring mana. Small heals + HoTs will give you a constant 'stream' of mana, while big heals will give you mana in 'chunks'.

As a tankadin it's worthwhile to invest in mana injectors, or atleast get PvP pots.
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Postby Catriona » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:25 am

Shadraak wrote:
Worldie wrote:That dragon, and all the next bosses you will find as long as you don't overgear, will be hurting you SO bad that mana will be the last of your problems.


but then again if i'm oom i'm fubared right? i mean i ran with a pally healer and she knew how to heal me to let me get to like 40% and hit me with a big heal and it was good same wth a priest but there's some that will jsut pop on little regen ones and keep me topped off and it's like i'm always OOM :(

...possibly because later on allowing your tank to get to 40% may cause a wipe, and at least causes lots of screaming on vent "OMG TOP ME UP! HAEL TANK!"
I may be bitter about Sunwell attempts last night though...
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Postby Malthorn » Wed May 07, 2008 1:12 am

Having major problems with the dragon, even while strafing he just pawns me. Last 2 attempts the group got him down to 50% and then I was gone. Now it could be three things.... either my equipment, the fact that a shadowpriest spec was healing or not enough dps from the party.

Can you take a look at my equip to see if that's the issue? I know I have to replace my belt, shoulders, neck and rings but I'm wondering if that'll make a serious difference.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Agamaggan&n=malthorn
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Postby ldeboer » Wed May 07, 2008 2:51 am

/Sigh ok where do we start

Malthorn wrote: the fact that a shadowpriest spec was healing
r=Agamaggan&n=malthorn[/url]


This is going to be a problem right here sorry shadowpriest healing is like you healing they can do it but not well.

Next you are level 60 and this boss is 63ish if I remember he was probably orange to you so you are going to take a beating and you have a part time healer behind you.

Finally your gear what can I say nicely ... well one piece has +def on it your gear simply isn't tank gear.

Prob best place to start is

http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... .php?t=163

Look at the gear alot comes from quests which you will do so you know which reward to select.

Read and understand that without defensive gear this boss is crit you and cut you to pieces quite aside from the other problem you found that without proper tank gear you cant generate enough threat.
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Postby Malthorn » Wed May 07, 2008 4:20 am

Doh..... crap... I do have the +def gear.... I must have had the wrong stuff on the whole instance :oops: :oops:

edit

Just to add.... I'm an idiot :roll:
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