Starting Heroics (with a Sethekk horror story)

[Saphex]

Well I recently found this board a few weeks ago, and can't tell how much some of the info has helped me in progression.. Appreciate it

Anyways, this week I started running my first heroics as a tank (it's amazing how much you miss playing a mage..) But yea.

Here's my current layout:
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azgalor&n=Saphe
I have the Cenarion Revered neck.. This must've updated when I was showing off my leet ret neck...lame

--Tomorrow sometime should have the Bracers of the Green Fortress..

(With only Kings buffed I'm at 12227hp and 5058mana)

Slave Pens, my first encounter.. Cake. I think we managed to clear this in about 45minutes.. no problems.

Underbog, went in.. cleared this like nothing. Was a little worried because my priest healer friend had to go to bed.. PUG'd another one, turned out to be in mostly Kara loot.. Worked out well.

With our spirits high we went into Mech, and I dont know what happened to the priest between Zangarmarsh and Netherstorm, but I think he went into tard mode. Wiped on the first pull two times.. and then he ran into the pat you can bypass after the first boss (Who no longer drops a badge.. ghey)

Today we then attemped those heroics.. with little/no fault (Except the Nethermancer. Went in with a heavy melee group.. wiped twice and quit).. And then ventured into Sethekk Halls. Oh.. My.. God. I have never been in such a bad group.

MS War, SPriest, Frost Mage, H Priest.. None overly geared.. Warrior in Mostly Merc. Gear.. Mage and H Priest in some Kara loot...(I always run w/ the war.. RL Friends) But yea.. We wiped an uncountable number of times.. And it was just bad.. Seemed that one person in the group wasnt ready.. and everyone got impatient and wouldnt let me pull (Mage ice lance.. HOLY priest SWP a mob..) You'd think w/ the CC this would've been cake..
Then they get on me for not pulling aggro off them.. By the time we made it to Ikiss everyone was so burnt out and just seemed they didnt care.. 5 more wipes/resets here before getting em.. and having the leet Bracers of the Hunt fall... I mean seriously, blizzard could've thrown us a bone.. The only useless epic to the group.. and it fell.

What I'm mostly getting at are these questions:

1) When Avengers Shield misses, How the heck am I suppose to maintain initial aggro from a group who REFUSES to wait til I get atleast an initial JoR off..

2) Is it really that hard to get and maintain aggro when someone else pulls?

3) What would the best way to hold aggro from people who are geared better than I am be.. (I can scream it til my lungs burst.. but they just refuse to wait til they attempt to nuke ... Leaving my poor healer spamming all he has on them.. pulling aggro and dying.. and making the tankadin heal.. gogo 600 FoL's!)

Any advice about any of these/Gear tips will be taken to heart.. I appreciate it much. (I know.. I NEED a shield.. Working on Sha'tar rep)


PS: Sorry for rambling. I'm tired and the laundry still isnt done.

[ulushnar]

Heroic Sethekk Halls is horrid. I avoid it and Auchenai Crypts to this day.

1. DPSers who won't wait die. Use the time the mob spends killing them to let your Righteous Defense and JoR get off cooldown.

2. Depends. If the person pulling uses a low threat attack and you open up with a Consecrate and a JoR, you should be ok.

3. If they're geared better than you and they haven't yet pegged on to the value of reading a threat meter, then I'd refuse to tank for them. If you're not using a threat meter yourself then you should, and reccomend your friends do likewise.

If I run with someone who consistantly pulls aggro, then they go in my "people I won't tank for again" list. And yes, some people I'd otherwise consider friends are on that list. Life's too short for bad groups.

[guillex]

Heroic Sethekk Halls is horrid. I avoid it and Auchenai Crypts to this day.

This.

1. DPSers who won't wait die. Use the time the mob spends killing them to let your Righteous Defense and JoR get off cooldown.

"You pull it, you tank it"

2. Depends. If the person pulling uses a low threat attack and you open up with a Consecrate and a JoR, you should be ok.

If it's undead, Exorcism. Other than that, forget about putting up Crusader first as a seal; I usually wait until I have mobs beating on me before I judge crusader or wisdom or light.

People usually aren't going to pull with a low-threat attack... If someone casts a pom/pyro before you can get anything off, run back to them, drop a consecrate, and taunt the mob. Then just threat rotate until you get it. Don't focus on it, just try and get it back.

3. If they're geared better than you and they haven't yet pegged on to the value of reading a threat meter, then I'd refuse to tank for them. If you're not using a threat meter yourself then you should, and reccomend your friends do likewise.

Try and get them to turn off DPS meters, and check threat meters. Were you buffing Salv, or class buffs? If ever I pug a group, they get salv. Do not pass Go. Do not collect aggro.

If I run with someone who consistantly pulls aggro, then they go in my "people I won't tank for again" list. And yes, some people I'd otherwise consider friends are on that list. Life's too short for bad groups.

And finally, this.

[Pizbit]

I've decided to avoid auchindoun heroics full stop on my tank, and arc

Did you know that the 2 mini-bosses, while not dropping a badge each give access to the cache of the legion which contains a bagde? Wasn't sure if you did from your post.

I haven't actually tried heroic mech yet as a tank, done heroic bot a few though, When you try H-Bot keep this in mind: Bring no more than 1 melee besides yourself. Bring 2 CC, prefer 1 is a mage. Rogue works as best melee for wound poison on 2nd and final boss(it's a huge effective DPS boost to your group to half the heals on those bosses. Make sure the rogue shivs to keep a 5 stack up). Well, those are my rules for forming a group anyway

[Balanor]

1) When Avengers Shield misses, How the heck am I suppose to maintain initial aggro from a group who REFUSES to wait til I get atleast an initial JoR off..

Prep SoR before you pull so that you can judge as soon as the mob comes running after you. If the DPS are timing their casting to the throw of your shield, explain to them the shield can miss and that you may have to get agro some other way. I usually tell them that once I get the first consecrate down, they can nuke away.

2) Is it really that hard to get and maintain aggro when someone else pulls?

Depends on what they pull with. If they pull with a Pyroblast then yeah. If someone else is pulling because your shield will break sheep or sap, have them use the lowest rank spell they have. This is also why I <3 my Goblin Rocket Launcher.

3) What would the best way to hold aggro from people who are geared better than I am be.. (I can scream it til my lungs burst.. but they just refuse to wait til they attempt to nuke ... Leaving my poor healer spamming all he has on them.. pulling aggro and dying.. and making the tankadin heal.. gogo 600 FoL's!)

If you dont have a SD weapon or at least 161 SD (which is easy for any pally who gets a contiuum blade and a +40 SD enchant) its their responsibility for knowing that they are going to be threat capped and they have to watch what they do.

[Balanor]

And looking at your gear, Im not sure why you are having threat issues as I've tanked heroic SL and Mech with 4 SSC geared friends from another guild with around 200 SD (161+wizard oil) and never had this issue. I even asked the warlock if he was having to throttle back and his reply was "surprisingly no" (they were right on my butt tho chasing my threat )

[Saphex]

First off, I appreciate all the quick feedback.

DPS Meters.. I constantly run SW Stats, and the core group I run with are friends who I've played with since beta/release.. And they know I have meters. Will I flash them? Hell no. That just leads to long, agonizing run backs and constant "Man wtf? You said you had aggro" ...On the Skull. Last I checked, the 3rd kill target wasn't a skull.

Threat Meters.. I also use KTM.. The only problem is, I'm seemingly the only person with the meters. I think I've grouped with one person who has had it in the last week, and yes.. He was a healer.

Pulls.. When they pull, of course its not a low threat skill. Example: I ask the mage to pull.. Pops his trinkets and AP.. Frostbolts away. In cases like that I let him deal with the mob, and try not to let the other 3 die.

CC.. I try my best to let the rogue feel good about himself and sap something (When I group with them).. but most of the time it usually ends up getting broke. I think my biggest pet peeve right now is Mages who cannot sheep. "Hey I'm going to throw my shield, get a poly off before it hits my consecrate" ...75% of the time this fails, and instead of helping w/ the kill target, he'll chain sheep in the consecrate. Am I at fault here?

I dont know if its just me.. but when a warrior initially charges the kill target, and its stunned and doesnt come with the rest of the pull. I find this really annoying. If you want to charge so bad, stand back.. wait til I get them to me.. then go. Not hard at all..

Oh and since the changes to heroic keys (Revered -> Honored) .. I've found myself grouping with people in level 60 blues, and mostly greens. I'll inspect them after the summon and be like.. "Are you serious?". Just because you HAVE the key.. doesn't mean you're ready for it. And when I explain to them (Trying to sound not like a complete ass) that their gear isnt good enough, they flip.


Maybe we had so much trouble with Sethekk because that was the last of 4 straight heroics. Everyone was a bit burnt out, and a couple of us said.. Let's take 25 minutes, and just get a little break.. Next thing I know.. "So and so wants to summon you to Auchindoun."

--

Any suggestions on gear that'd be a real upgrade? (Note: Never been much of a raider.. This is my first PvE focused character) I know theres that belt from heroic ramps, boots from heroic bot, and the shoulders from...Sethekk. But most of those are straight +Def. Is it worth the time (And in many cases Agony) farming day in and day out for these?

[Metrodin]

For the love of God, get Omen! KTM is awful...

[Maranus]

Kick retards.

And never heal, it's not good for threat.