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Heroic Difficulty Ratings

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Postby Maranus » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:30 am

Heroic Durnhold's second boss can be killer if you have a melee heavy group... the consecrate hurts. Been there once on a serious attempt and that was what killed us... I think we had 3 melee dps and a tree druid healing. I've cleared every other Heroic, but that one still gives me chills...

Heroic Mana Tombs, last time I was in there, it was with a friend's druid alt healer pretty late at night (we were doing the daily before the reset) basically, every pull he was swearing "Every mob in this instance is a fucking cock!" Mobs that manaburn, fear, random charge, gouge, drop agro... in every pull... threat from those would be marginalized by a crack DPS team.
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Postby Balanor » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:38 am

Here's my experience as a mostly blue geared Pally tank with 12.5K unbuffed and just barely uncrushable:

Ramparts - 1: I've run this with other guildes who are even worse equipped than I with a resto druid with about +1000 heal. Dog packs are tricky but a druid makes it easier since once of the dogs can be slept. I can tank maybe 2 at a time safely.

Slave Pens - 2: The defenders (non-CCable) are a pain but I do tank them both at a time. HoJ works nicely to slow damage and rogue stuns FTW. Does require spam heals tho.

Mech - 3: As others have said, interrupting the charged fist is almost a necessity. Gauntlet is trivial by running back down elevator between waves. 2nd boss is usually skipped because we still havent figured out how to move and fight.

Botanica - 3: Only boss that gave us trouble was the demon and once the DPS learned to stop attacking after his hellfire to give me a chance to reestablish agro, he wasnt too bad with fire aura up.

Mana Tombs - 7: Relying on only Shadow Resist aura or Shadow Protection for only +70 shadow resist is suicide. We only did this instance once but never got past Pandemonius and gave up after 5 tries.

Sethekk Halls - 5: Again having a druid for sleeps on the warhawks, a mage for sheep and a SP for shackles makes clearing trash pretty trivial. First boss wasnt bad either as I was able tank him, consecrate the adds and then have the DPS assist kill each add one at a time. We never had an issue avoiding the arcane blasts but we did have agro issues and the druid had trouble keeping everyone alive thru his Shadow Volleys

Figured I would just share my viewpoint as an up and coming paladin.
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Postby Athon » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:31 pm

I just did heroic MT today. It is definitely the hardest heroic I've experienced. I have 13.6k health and 16k armor unbuffed, but we wiped twice on the first boss and twice on the last boss. The first boss is insane without shadow resistance gear and the last boss requires imba DPS. The second boss sometimes hits extremely hard, but I didn't die. All trash requires good CC.

Other heroics... Botanica is my favorite with a good group. Quite easy.

Blood Furnace: Some mobs hit very hard. The bosses aren't hard though.

SP: I hate the big packs of mobs between the second and the last boss.

Underbog: Not too bad. The humanoids before the second boss are annoying, but otherwise this is easy and fun.

Sethekk halls: If you have good CC, this isn't too hard. Not many heroic badges though.

Shattered halls: I haven't done a full run yet. Only the first boss for Karazhan quest. The big mob packs felt quite tough. I had a feeling that things aren't quite under control.

Arcatraz: I did this with a good group. It wasn't as bad as I expected. I quite enjoyed it. Maybe we had imba group. :)

Ramparts: Sometimes there are groups of 3 mobs (one humanoid and two dogs) which hit very hard. When I first tried this instance, we wiped several times during the first few mobs. Later I've had better success (I'm in nearly full epics now), but I'm still a bit wary of some mobs.

Steamvaults: If you have decent CC for caster mobs (a mage and a shadow priest are good choice), this is easy. The last boss is easier if there are some melee members in the group since the boss has some anti-spell abilities. I've not tried this instance without good CC.

Still no experience about Auchenai crypts, Mechanar or Shadow labs. I don't like any of those instances in normal mode, although everyone else seems to love Mechanar. I have no experience about CoT instances in heroic mode either.
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Postby Kullan » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:30 pm

So far I've only done 2 Heroics. I'm fairly new to 70's tanking but heroics are still pretty hard for me. In any normal run I've done I feel nigh invulnerable, even with a 68 priest healing in a few.

I tried Heroic UB first and it wasn't too bad. I couldn't always aoe tank all of the packs but luckily I had a druid friend of mine pick up some of the mobs. We were able to each tank one of the two giants and with him helping we did fairly with all of the trash.

The bosses were different. I was surprised at how many more mushrooms pop up on the first one. Holy heck. I died toward the end and my partner picked up to finish him off. Second boss raped me. It so scared the girl that was healing (Resto Druid at the T4 +) she asked me to off heal. The last stretch wasnt as bad as I thought it would be as I think we were getting the hang of things by that point. Skipped the 3rd boss for times sake but took down the last boss ok.

Im entry level I guess with defense over 490 but only a bit over 11K health /armor.

Bot was the other one that I did. Really only the 1st boss was hard with the adds that pop. Other than that we wiped on the last once but got him the second time. The epic plate gloves dropped but I was disappointed that my D3 of the bold gloves seem better with the gem sockets.

I guess I dont get heroics. Over all they seem harder than the loot they drop deserves.
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Postby Athon » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:41 am

Kullan wrote:I guess I dont get heroics. Over all they seem harder than the loot they drop deserves.

That's true. The first bosses in Karazhan are easier than most heroics. Heroics are good for grinding rep and daily heroics are good for getting badges, but the other loot is usually good for disenchanting only.
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Postby Rokh » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:27 am

For the love of god, do i need a write a guide on Heroic manatombs?

Here is the secret to make any heroic an easy heroic.

friends+vent.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... cus&n=Rokh

I have like 4 different shields/weapon combos, so if something odd is in my profile my normal tank setup is Season1 gavel + crest of Sha'tar

But thats my gear, and I have never ran a heroic that i found to be 'hard' in fact, heroic manatombs is my favorite.


Now if we are talking puging heroics hah, i would say the biggest problem i have ever had was the 2nd boss in Shadow Lab... we had this full disc priest with only like 9k mana... refused to do anything but bubble and flash heal....needless to say that did not go well and he/she went oom on the first MC every time.
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Postby grymwulf » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:51 am

I've found that for MT first boss, the best tactic to use is to ensure that you stop attacking and click off Holy Shield - just take the hits when he's in the Void. Once he exists, restart your dps/Exorcise and if the dps holds off for 5-8s you can maintain aggro throughout.

Finally for the last boss, concentrate all DPS on him, and ignore the adds. Normally if your dps is sufficient you can take him down before the adds kill the clothies. You'll probably wipe, but as long as he's dead you can come back and clear the adds afterwards.
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Postby Ynua » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:30 pm

Tekkel wrote: Shadow Labs: I seriously outgear this place but fears are annoying. The shadowpriest mindflay is overpowered when u also tank the rest of a trashpack. The second boss is a pain in the ass with your long taunt cooldown and he burns your mana during mindcontrol on useless stuff.


Thank god!!! I thought I was going nuts. The first remark about second SL boss Oo

To me he is a nightmare, OOM after first MC (7.6 k mana) need at least 2 pots and an innervate to not be completely useless during this fight. Am i doing something wrong?

On one occasion tried 4 times, then had the Boomkin tank him... Never seen such an easy kill. Amazing.
Ynua - Draneï Paldin - Kor'Gall
Cobbler - Human Warlock - Kor'Gall
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Postby Nobot » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:38 pm

Ynua wrote:Thank god!!! I thought I was going nuts. The first remark about second SL boss Oo

To me he is a nightmare, OOM after first MC (7.6 k mana) need at least 2 pots and an innervate to not be completely useless during this fight. Am i doing something wrong?

On one occasion tried 4 times, then had the Boomkin tank him... Never seen such an easy kill. Amazing.


SoV goes a long way toward helping me keep threat. Positioning is also important. As you walk into the room you see the back door has a "pile" on the left and right. Ranged stands on the right pile, melee on the left. Makes him easier to pick up when he de-aggros.

Bring a couple mana pots, keep BoWis on yourself. Pray for luck.
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Postby Barristan » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:40 pm

Ynua wrote:
Tekkel wrote: Shadow Labs: I seriously outgear this place but fears are annoying. The shadowpriest mindflay is overpowered when u also tank the rest of a trashpack. The second boss is a pain in the ass with your long taunt cooldown and he burns your mana during mindcontrol on useless stuff.


Thank god!!! I thought I was going nuts. The first remark about second SL boss Oo

To me he is a nightmare, OOM after first MC (7.6 k mana) need at least 2 pots and an innervate to not be completely useless during this fight. Am i doing something wrong?

On one occasion tried 4 times, then had the Boomkin tank him... Never seen such an easy kill. Amazing.


If you have a hunter in the group there's a way of possibly saving your mana.

You can have him drop a freezing trap at your feet around the time of the MC that way you get frozen. As long as you don't get attacked (not the easiest thing, sometimes) you'll stay frozen and the MC can't use any of your mana.
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Postby Gimorth » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:46 pm

kalbear wrote:It takes 5 people who know what they're doing, but it especially takes a good healer. Heroics are made or broken on the healer more than anything else. A tank who is reasonably equipped in blues can handle a few heroics assuming they're talented. But they won't be able to do anything at all without a good healer who knows what they're doing.


In my limited time tanking Heroics, I found the above to be the most true statement. In the same day I tanked Heoic SP twice (mid-morning resets ftw), and had two remarkably different experiences. In the first, I was able to AoE tank most of the instance with No CC w/o the healer having to drink a mana pot until someone accidentally pulled a group of crabs. In the second, we didn't get through the first group of crabs w/o someone screaming that we need CC and the healer complaining that I take too much damage. In neither case did the healers trivialize the instance by totally out-gearing the place.

Anyway, that's just my 2cp. Given the difficulty ratings assigned here and the fact that I have successfully tanked BF (my first), MT and SP, I feel relatively confident that even a moderately geared Pally Tank can tank almost any Heroic provided he/she has a capable healer.
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Postby Enkoram » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:02 pm

Seems that gear and experience make the difference.

Most of the people that I've doing doing Heroics w/ lately are guildies, all in Kara gear.

I was TOTALLY skeptical about what kind of results we'd have the other day when I finally went into H. SH to do my last book for the Nightbane quest chain.

Me tanking, Pally healer, Hunter, Shadow priest and Feral Druid.

Hunter kited and solo'd their "hunters" (with the guns). I'd LoS pull, and tank all of them. Focus fire dropped 'em pretty quickly.

And H.UB is my fav' for the daily. That's the fastest 6 badges EVER. dr00d healer, 2 mages and a hunter w/ me tanking. And IMHO, H.BF actually gets easier the further in you get. Hardest boss is the second one, and HE'S not hard, its clearing all the mobs before that. I've found that sheeping the last mob before the boss is a good way of regen'ing health and mana (albeit slowly), then boss is cake.
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Postby Rykis » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:55 pm

This is a useful thread. I'd like to see it stickied.
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Postby Jobah » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:40 am

I dont see why you other tankadins dont like botanica. Bring a priest u can MC those mobs for +295 spell dmg. With the aoe tanking i can actually contribute a fair amount of dps :D. Its long... but if you chain pull and know what your doing you can finish it in 40 minutes.

Underbog and SP are by far the easiest out of any. You dont need any CC for underbog, my favorite heroic by far. Ive cleared it in 38 minutes before with 2 warlocks and an elemental shaman.
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Postby sucellus » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:52 am

Enkoram wrote:I was TOTALLY skeptical about what kind of results we'd have the other day when I finally went into H. SH to do my last book for the Nightbane quest chain.

Me tanking, Pally healer, Hunter, Shadow priest and Feral Druid.

Hunter kited and solo'd their "hunters" (with the guns). I'd LoS pull, and tank all of them. Focus fire dropped 'em pretty quickly.


Kiting? Crowd-control? A tankadin craves not these things. At least not in SH, with a good healer you can tank absolutely everything. :-) I lurve SH as your 4 party members will spend most of the time exclaiming in /g OMG, I love paladin tanks now!
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