How do you evaluate a healer for heroics?

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How do you evaluate a healer for heroics?

Postby Euphemos » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:21 am

My heroic runs, in the same dungeons (SP, SV, UB, Mech) have either been a complete cake-walk, or an unmitigated disaster. I've tried switching between lower stamina-higher avoidance (12.5k w/kings + additional from Crawdads, 19/17/20 avoidance) and higher stamina-lower avoidance (14k w/kings + additional from Crawdads, 15/14/24) gear, and it seems that the issue isn't my avoidance/stamina balance, but the healer. In some cases (Sethekk Halls first boss adds... shudder), the problem was clearly pitiful DPS, but most of the time, the problem seems to be a combination of Tank and Healer, since I'm the one dying, and they're the one not keeping me up.

If were all leet, with 21k health, I could do more with a rotten healer, but since I need at least an "OK" healer to be successful in heroics, the question is... How do you evaluate a healer to see if they're ready for heroic dungeons?

Often, I see my health dropping slowly without heals for 12-15 seconds before I die, while the healer does hugely productive things like heal the rogue who's getting Bog Dude Nature Aura damage instead of healing me, while I'm getting the same aura damage + direct attacks. Other times, the healer has no clue of when to use shield vs fast heal vs slow heal. Those are the type of things that you can't predict, but we have stats that help us decide if we're ready for heroics. Are there similar standards for a healer?

Obviously there are going to be people who could heal successfully with marginal stats, or fail with great stats, and different classes have different healing styles, but what sort of baseline "you should be able to heal heroics if you're not an idiot" stats do you look for?
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Postby Exodius » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:50 am

That's one very hard question. Most people look at the +healing stat a healer has. You can ask them or see it on Armory if that's rude.

Normally +1000 is a minimum for a heroic, in my opinion. Other people prefer much higher numbers as it indicates either more skill or more pure power to cover their stupidity.

I usually just run with a healer. If they do a good job, I tell them so and add them to my friends list. If they don't, then I won't add them - that sounds obvious, yes, but it does give you a quick list of capable healers if you need them. :)

Sometimes it's just a healer not knowing about a situation, for example, FoL spam is bad when fighting bog lords, that when you are stunned you take more damage, or you are more likely to get mana starved if you are constantly PW:Shielded (plus it's mana inefficient for them and creates a fair amount of threat).

A bad healer will sulk, not change, insult people and then maybe leave, claiming your "poor knowledge, insults and inability to tank" as the reasons.

A good healer will listen to advice if you tell them, like keeping the tank up before they work on the dps.

A very good healer will actively work on the fly to fix things, for example, max ranking heals or pre PW:Shielding.

An excellent healer doesn't even need to be told. They just keep you up no matter what crap they do.

Yeah, excellent healers definetly go on the friends list. :D
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Postby guillex » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:50 am

Only way is to run with them. You can't judge how well a healer is going to be by their +heals; as you pointed out, those +heals can be amazing, but going to the wrong person.

Run with them. If they're stupid, kick them.

But don't pug heroics. Guild runs are better, all the time, anytime. If not, find a few healers that you know have at least 2 neurons firing, and hit them up before anyone.
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Postby ulushnar » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:57 am

I usually group with the people I raid with or their alts. Very occasionally i'll end up grouping with unknowns through people I know.

I find as a tank, I can manipulate the pace of the run to suit the healer by swapping gear, toning my pulls down or using CC.

That said, I've found that there's no point in taking a healer to heroics who can't hit about 8k health buffed in some situations. Surviving splash damage in some fights (like Kargath, or the charging boss in hSH) is absolutely vital.
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Postby Vagrant » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:03 am

Yeah, knowledge about good healing is not issued with the purple items.
Case pugging two heroics, first Botanica with a blue priest who did a wonderful job. As the rest of the group wanted to keep me for Steamvault but the priest had to go, we acquired a Kara geared holy paladin instead. The pally was an adamant folspammer with 1/3 in Light's Grace and would only start casting HL when i was already going to die.

Get the addon called "Assesment" and learn to use it.
It keeps record of the last 15 seconds preceding all deaths which you can report to chat if your healer needs a slap in the face.
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Postby inthedrops » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:21 am

Ask them if they've ever healed it before. If they haven't, then start asking about specs and make sure your DPS is up to snuff. If they have, assume they know what they're doing and only offer suggestions if you later learn something needs to change.

That's my general approach.
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Postby Frickit » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:12 am

how do you build a good list of healers when all the puggers on ur realm suck so bad that you fly around in circles over shat waiting for a shad lab run just so you can go in there and wipe cuz the healers just suck so terribly bad? :?:

btw ive done shad labs, arcatraz, shet halls so far with great success when i 1. know the healer 2. the pug is actually ok/very rare
Last edited by Frickit on Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby guillex » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:14 am

Frickit wrote:how do you build a good list of healers when all the puggers on ur realm suck so bad that you fly around in circles over shat waiting for a shad lab run just so you can go in there and wipe cuz the healers just suck so terribly bad? :?:


xfer to another realm.

stop pugging.
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Postby Zahir » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:24 am

I've had the occassional "you take too much damage" or "wariors are better tanks" ...yea those that outgear me by a lot.

However when i started to run heroics with my "heroic farming party" it became clear to me it really was the healer and their ability. I've had no problem with the same paladin healer(1800ish healing) through any instance, minus the encounters where there is a ton of AoE dmg. You don't even need to be uncrushable for heroics, you just need to be crit immune at 485 def i think.

Like someone said already, if it's there first time running a heroic, or first time running a instance on heroic mode they haven't done, you're going to want to adjust to their healing skill lvl. As in, not chain pull things, not AoE tank everything and make sure the healer can keep you up during different situations. If the healer is running out of mana, tell them to bring mana pots during boss fights.

+healing is decieving, there are many scrubs who just got their gear by default and didn't truly earn it imo. And like any class in WoW, there are people who just don't understand the best way to play their class, this includes healing roles. Mashing FoL won't cut it like someone stated. I've also had some amazing healers who were at 1200 healing.

Honestly if you are serious about farming badge gear, the most efficient way of doing it is to form a group that will consistently run with you. There's 4 people i run with, and we just pick up a 5th DPS who is usually a guildy.
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Postby utena » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:37 pm

Heroics absolutely require a top notch healbot. I've never run a heroic successfully with a healer only at +1000 heals.

I've also failed at very simple heroics, like ramparts, with a +1500 healbot. It's not about +heal. It's about the types of heals, and skill.

From what I've found, mana efficient heals = fail. It's all about burst HPS. HoT's = fail. FoL = fail. If your healer doesn't have heroic experience, you will generally fail.

Heroics = big heals, and drinking between pulls.
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Postby Exodius » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:38 pm

Vagrant wrote:Get the addon called "Assesment" and learn to use it.
It keeps record of the last 15 seconds preceding all deaths which you can report to chat if your healer needs a slap in the face.


From what I can work out of Assessment it's an Ace add on... but I can't work out how to use it.

It doesn't help though that I have added a large batch of add ons though and that one is the least urgent. But anyway...

It sounds like a few of us sometimes suffer from the "where are my heals?" syndrome, whether raiding or pugging.

Can you tell us how to get such information from it?
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Postby Arcand » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:46 pm

Utena wrote:Heroics absolutely require a top notch healbot. I've never run a heroic successfully with a healer only at +1000 heals.


I think we did our first heroic Slave Pens ever with a priest at +1028, which I thought at the time was a staggeringly leet amount. :)

We beat the first boss because we brought two magi and abused Polymorph and Frost Nova and Hammer of Justice (mine and the tank's) to keep the damage under control.

(I'm agreeing with you though - 1000 is scary-low for a heroic.)
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Postby Arcand » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:49 pm

Exodius wrote:From what I can work out of Assessment it's an Ace add on... but I can't work out how to use it.


(From memory, be kind)

Click on the button up by your minimap - Assessment window pops up.
Right-click the title bar.
Mouse over the top option on the menu, I forget what it says.
Select Deaths.
It'll put up a bar graph showing how many times each person has died.
Click on the bar for the person you're interested, and it'll show lines for Death 1, Death 2, and so on. Click the one you want to see.

Now it brings up their health bar, and shows heals in green and damage in red as the bar gets hacked down to nothing. It's actually pretty cool, except it's depressing because every story in there has a bad ending. :(
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