Ready for heroics?

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Ready for heroics?

Postby Chevy » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:11 pm

Sorry to add another one of "these" threads in advance!

I don't have to much play time for trial and error, so I figured I'd finally register and ask here.

I generally run with a resto shammy, neither of us have touched netherstorm or smv, and we just recently hit 70.

Do you think I'm ready to tank heroics? I should have the season 1 pvp mace tomorrow or the day after, and I have a shield of the wayward footman as well.

Which would be ideal for me to start with? I've heard slave pens as well as ramparts?

here's my armory link:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... og&n=Chevy

Thanks guys!
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Postby rabbel » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:40 am

My tip: Give it a try. If you wipe a lot, you aren't ready.

No, really, I have done Botanica heroic (except for the last boss, the DDs weren't able to take him down) with worse equipment. Well, I got my ass handed by Laj, but we did it, so I don't see why you shouldn't at least try some heroics. Start with Slave Pens or Blood Furnace, avoid Auchenai Crypt or Sethekk Halls and you will be fine. And if you fail, memorize their faces and come back when you are ready.

/edit: Oh, I forgot: Get a Spelldam-Weapon (like Crystalforged Blade (Ogri'la), Continuum Blade (Keepers of Time) or Mana Wrath (Last Boss Mechanar)). Without any Spelldam you will be nice to heal, but you don't have the slightest chance to hold the mobs against high-aggro Classes like Shadow Priests or Warlocks.
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Postby Exodius » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:00 am

To be honest, I don't think you are ready.

It use to be that to get a heroic key you needed to be revered with a faction. That generally meant a lot of running of instances, which would be great as it would let you gear up and gain hands on tanking experience while you did it.

Now all you need is honored. In theory that's great as you don't need to run one or two instances another 15 times when you got all the great items on one run.

But if you don't have most of the good stuff from the normal versions, it's not wise in my opinion to try heroics.

Normally people say to go for 12k unbuffed health. I personally disagree with that number as I was clearing heroics when I had 10k health, but I was using avoidance tank theory to do so. That meant I had 102.4% total avoidance with holy shield up. Even then it was very hard and mobs and bosses would hit like bricks if I didn't avoid it. :(

http://failsafedesign.com/maintankadin/ ... .php?t=163 is a great guide on site. The WoW Paladin forums is a bit better formatted. The original author I think has moved on so it's a bit out of date in terms of the latest patch stuff, but it will help you in general see what are some good items to consider for upgrades and where to get them from.

Heroic Mechanar 3 badge use to be the easiest, but if you want the 2 badges you still need to face a destroyer which hits like a truck and will likely kill you. :(

Slave pens is not too bad, but the final two bosses hit quite hard and the complexity of the patrols and the fears can make it challenging.

Ramparts is not too bad either, but many of the mobs will stun lock you, which will mean huge damage as your avoidance drops if the healer is not on board.

If you are going to try though, I strongly recommend superior wizard oil to boost your threat and Spicy Crawdads to boost your health. Treat heroics the first time you go in as super raid hard, with every trick you can throw at it to boost yourself being used.

As gear gets better, you can use cheaper and easier buffs (or not use them at all), but it's still handy to have that kind of stuff on board in case you need more threat or health.
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Postby Barathorn » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:31 am

I think you should try and see how you go but I agree with Exodius in that I don't think you are ready. I am however known for being a cautious player, I didn't enter Karazhan until I had 490 def and 102.4% because I wanted to make sure I could handle the mobs and bosses in there, so maybe I am a little too conservative at trying things out early as a gear check?

My first heroic [pre 2.3] I had 12k health and 12k armour buffed and I got the absolute shite beat out of me. I don't think its unrealistic thesedays to expect tankadins to have 11k health and 12k armour unbuffed before trying a heroic. TBH paladin tanking is all about putting the effort in from day 1, the more effort you put into gearing up, the easier your ride will be. Do not be fooled into thinking you can do a heroic because you have the key. I did 13 runs of SV for my devilshark and 12 runs of SH for my figurine, these runs taught me a lot about myself and how to best use the skills available to me.

Should you decide to try a heroic, the best advice I can give you is to get,

1/ a good healer [pref priest for the buff]
2/ a warlock [for the imp buff and cc]
3/ knowledge of what to expect by reading up on the instance beforehand.

Have a go, its only a repair bill at the end of the day, just don't expect too much and try to go with friends, don't pug it.

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Postby Zeels » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:59 am

I don't see the urgent rush for everyone to run heroics?

I ran _a lot_ of normals before I even attempted a heroic.

By doing normals you get:

- Gear you will need the blue gear, there aren't even enough heroic badge loot to cover all spots, you need to start from somewhere
- You learn the pulls and the instance, will be a disaster if you don't know what to do and how the bosses work.
- Experience, general tanking experience.

Start doing all normals at least once, let's face it even if you get into well geared groups a green geared tank won't cut it. The tank is IMO the most gear dependant member of any 5-man/raid group.
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Postby DamnLag » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:59 pm

Sorry for slight hijack. I am also wondering if I am ready for SP. Armory is currently borked, so I cannot link my armory.

11k HP (unbuffed)
11.5k Armor (unbuffed)

497 Defense

15.xx % Dodge
15.xx % Parry
15.xx % Block
(don't remember exact numbers, they are all 15% however)

I do have Crystalforged Blade w/ +40 Spell Damage

I plan on taking.. Spicy Crawdad, Adept/Fortitude Elixir and Wizard Oil

I wouldn't be asking if I could see OPs gear (I would be able to gauge better by what everyone has said in this thread so far).
Batteries not included.
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Postby Vanifae » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:51 pm

None of you are prepared.
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Postby Athon » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:57 am

Zeels wrote:I don't see the urgent rush for everyone to run heroics?

I ran _a lot_ of normals before I even attempted a heroic.

By doing normals you get:

- Gear you will need the blue gear, there aren't even enough heroic badge loot to cover all spots, you need to start from somewhere
- You learn the pulls and the instance, will be a disaster if you don't know what to do and how the bosses work.
- Experience, general tanking experience.

Start doing all normals at least once, let's face it even if you get into well geared groups a green geared tank won't cut it. The tank is IMO the most gear dependant member of any 5-man/raid group.

Dunno about gear. My pally (11.7k health, almost 12k armor, ~500 defense, 90% avoidance) has almost completely blue gear. Two green items, three epics. Only two of the items are instance drops. Others are from quests, AH or PVP rewards (S1 mace). There aren't too many upgrades available in normal mode instances for me. This means that all I get from most runs is tanking experience and some reputation. Fortunately I really enjoy tanking. :)

I've done two heroic runs so far and neither went well, although all normal mode instances feel quite easy now. In my opinion the jump from normal mode instances to heroics is too big. Maybe it affects paladin tanks more than others.
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Postby Exodius » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:30 am

I have got almost all of my gear from instances or quests, with just a few bits from the AH (the Felsteel helm I bought, but I can make it now myself).

I guess if most of your gear and experience is from other sources... well, it's not the same as tanking an instance a day. Fighting in a BG is almost completely different to tanking an instance/raid. Farming is kind of different too, as you don't need to worry about aggro or other people. :?

There is definitely a place for reading theory to improve strategies. But there is, in my honest opinion, a place for just experiencing things.

I think it's kind of like driving a car. You can read books about it, you can watch other people, you can practice withough moving... but situational awareness of traffic and road conditions take time to get drilled in.

That's how I view tanking. There is nothing wrong with downgrading gear and running easier stuff if heroics are too hard. That's where you hone your tank driving skills. :wink:
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Postby cerealkiler » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:04 pm

just a few advices:

1) don't try ae tank right at first, go with standard cc , then slowly loosen up as you and your healer feel comfortable.

2) take full advantage of manatap and arcane torrent, in places like SP and Sethekk hall, my arcane torrent is almost always on cd.

3) teammates wise, casters are your friend, as well as a good hunter

4) mob wise, casters are your nightmare, deal with caution.

5) always have enough water on u if u are not sure u'll get a mage or not ^^
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Postby DamnLag » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:45 pm

Vanifae wrote:None of you are prepared.


As it turns out, your wrong.
Batteries not included.
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Postby guillex » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:56 pm

DamnLag wrote:
Vanifae wrote:None of you are prepared.


As it turns out, your wrong.


As it turns out ... your should be spelled you're, because it's a contraction of "you" and "are" before wrong.

You are wrong = you're wrong

He doesn't own the wrong... Though he might ... Van's kinda confusing that way.
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Re: Ready for heroics?

Postby Dianora » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:27 pm

Chevy wrote:Sorry to add another one of "these" threads in advance!

I don't have to much play time for trial and error, so I figured I'd finally register and ask here.

I generally run with a resto shammy, neither of us have touched netherstorm or smv, and we just recently hit 70.

Do you think I'm ready to tank heroics? I should have the season 1 pvp mace tomorrow or the day after, and I have a shield of the wayward footman as well.

Which would be ideal for me to start with? I've heard slave pens as well as ramparts?

here's my armory link:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... og&n=Chevy

Thanks guys!


A bit low on health.
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